'89 C4 Brake Upgrade?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,456
Likes: 7
From: MichAgain
How would you know how much hi speed braking experience I've had in the several vettes I have driven and owned. Just because I"m new to this forum doesn't mean I new to vette related performance issues. If "DucK" had that much hi speed braking experience in his vette he wouldn't be making the statement my J55 brakes "stop pretty damn well"
I think you should check your attitude, quickly!
I think you should check your attitude, quickly!
And my attitude is fine...thank you.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 9
From: '88 TPI L98/HotCam Powell, Ohio
I would also say that on a stock c4 the c5 brakes are more than fine for a 30 min session as I have had no issues. If they aren't then you are using them to much! A stock c4 simply does not have that much power to need more than a c5 setup. I am aware of spreading issues but have not had any issue on my stock c4
I wasn't directing any flames anywhere. Just offering another opinion. I do know that trying to out brake guys that have BBK's while racing w/ a C4/C5 setup just doesn't work over full race distance. (or even a couple of laps) Usually from 130 + mph but you get the idea.....W2W is a little different.
Also, I only started really having brake problems when I switched to the 315 A6's. Huge amount of traction to over work the brakes.
FWIW, I'll have a full GS brake setup for sale soon. Calipers, pads, rotors, SS lines and brackets.
Last edited by mrc24x; Oct 13, 2008 at 09:19 PM.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: Montoursville PA
I wasn't directing any flames anywhere. Just offering another opinion. I do know that trying to out brake guys that have BBK's while racing w/ a C4/C5 setup just doesn't work over full race distance. (or even a couple of laps) Usually from 130 + mph but you get the idea.....W2W is a little different.
Also, I only started really having brake problems when I switched to the 315 A6's. Huge amount of traction to over work the brakes.
FWIW, I'll have a full GS brake setup for sale soon. Calipers, pads, rotors, SS lines and brackets.
Also, I only started really having brake problems when I switched to the 315 A6's. Huge amount of traction to over work the brakes.
FWIW, I'll have a full GS brake setup for sale soon. Calipers, pads, rotors, SS lines and brackets.
I need more motor I guess anyway I get what you are saying.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
From: Delray beach FL
if you really knew about racing you should know that upgrading to c5 front is good but if you retain the rear stock this is not good and brake will be unbalanced.
J55 with brembo rotors that have a much higher caloric thermal dissipation and good hawk pads will not fade away and will work about the same as c5.
Upgrading rear is almost as important as front for track use.
It keep the balance right and allow you to enter faster un a corner than a c5 front upgrade only as vette is way much more balanced.
J55 with brembo rotors that have a much higher caloric thermal dissipation and good hawk pads will not fade away and will work about the same as c5.
Upgrading rear is almost as important as front for track use.
It keep the balance right and allow you to enter faster un a corner than a c5 front upgrade only as vette is way much more balanced.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,469
Likes: 275
From: Naples FL
OK - If you really want to test your Corvette brakes make sure you sign up for the short course at Sebring. In November Chin Motorsports will be using the short course at Sebring. This is the course the IRL guys use for brake testing.
The short course just eats brakes. There's no place to cool off your brakes. All of this macho talk about stopping can be settled on the short course.
Also, the biggest braking aid I found was a set of Bilstein shocks with huge rebound numbers. The huge rebound numbers keep my rear tires planted to the pavement. My braking improved tremendously once I could keep the rear tires on the pavement.
Now just to settle all of this Macho brake talk. Take turn 1 at Homestead without touching the brakes. Now that will seperate the big dogs from the puppies.
Richard Newton
101 Projects for Your Corvette 1984-1996
Autocross Performance Handbook
The short course just eats brakes. There's no place to cool off your brakes. All of this macho talk about stopping can be settled on the short course.
Also, the biggest braking aid I found was a set of Bilstein shocks with huge rebound numbers. The huge rebound numbers keep my rear tires planted to the pavement. My braking improved tremendously once I could keep the rear tires on the pavement.
Now just to settle all of this Macho brake talk. Take turn 1 at Homestead without touching the brakes. Now that will seperate the big dogs from the puppies.
Richard Newton
101 Projects for Your Corvette 1984-1996
Autocross Performance Handbook
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,413
Likes: 9
From: The Old Dominion
Way to overreact.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 694
Likes: 27
From: St James New York
Yes I'm aware the J55 HD front brakes would be an improvement over my JL9 brakes and would fit in my OEM wheels, but I am looking for a greater performance braking upgrade.
The C5 ZO6 rotors are the same diameter as the J55 rotors but are thicker offerring better thermodynamic properties. The C5 ZO6 calipers are also stronger and hold more fluid again with better thermodynamic heat transfer. Also a C5 ZO6 brake upgrade would actually be cheaper using new OEM GM and aftermarket parts than using new OEM J55 parts. Brake pad choices would also be greater and in many cases cheaper using C5 ZO6 calipers.
I was refering to '96 Grand Sport front calipers that I believe are similar performance wise to the C5 ZO6 calipers but are painted a dark grey and not red.
Thanks for all the helpful responses to my questions ~ to those of you who were helpful
Last edited by mako41; Oct 15, 2008 at 01:18 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 9
From: '88 TPI L98/HotCam Powell, Ohio
Grand Sport calipers are totally different than the Zo6 calipers. C5 calipers are the same as C5Z but they are not red.
You may want to double check the price on track pads for the C5 setup. They aren't cheap.
Matt
You may want to double check the price on track pads for the C5 setup. They aren't cheap.
Matt
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,456
Likes: 7
From: MichAgain
)Would a brake bias spring need changed if the fronts are changed to
J55 like should be done with C-5 upgrade?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 9
From: '88 TPI L98/HotCam Powell, Ohio
True, but are track pads for a J55 setup any cheaper? C-5 rotors are much cheaper, although the last set I ordered through NAPA are no longer US or Canadian make (Chinese )
Would a brake bias spring need changed if the fronts are changed to
J55 like should be done with C-5 upgrade?
)Would a brake bias spring need changed if the fronts are changed to
J55 like should be done with C-5 upgrade?
C4 HD - DTC60 = $200.39 HT10 = $155.91 Total = $356.30
C5 - DTC60 = $235.94 HT10 = $162.75 Total = $398.69
Wilwood- DTC60 = $143.88 HT10 = $123.02 Total = $266.90
It's not that big of a difference but the Wilwoods will pay for the upgrade within a couple of years. I'm planning on SL6 fronts w/ SL4 rears?(undecided) and a proportioning valve.
I didn't change my bias spring when I upgraded to the J55's. I just tried a lot of different pad compounds between front and rear until I liked it.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,456
Likes: 7
From: MichAgain
I'm running Hawk DTC60 fronts w/ HT10 rear pads so I'll just give you an idea of the price difference on those from Porterfield Brakes :
C4 HD - DTC60 = $200.39 HT10 = $155.91 Total = $356.30
C5 - DTC60 = $235.94 HT10 = $162.75 Total = $398.69
Wilwood- DTC60 = $143.88 HT10 = $123.02 Total = $266.90
It's not that big of a difference but the Wilwoods will pay for the upgrade within a couple of years. I'm planning on SL6 fronts w/ SL4 rears?(undecided) and a proportioning valve.
I didn't change my bias spring when I upgraded to the J55's. I just tried a lot of different pad compounds between front and rear until I liked it.
C4 HD - DTC60 = $200.39 HT10 = $155.91 Total = $356.30
C5 - DTC60 = $235.94 HT10 = $162.75 Total = $398.69
Wilwood- DTC60 = $143.88 HT10 = $123.02 Total = $266.90
It's not that big of a difference but the Wilwoods will pay for the upgrade within a couple of years. I'm planning on SL6 fronts w/ SL4 rears?(undecided) and a proportioning valve.
I didn't change my bias spring when I upgraded to the J55's. I just tried a lot of different pad compounds between front and rear until I liked it.
Oh I wish you hadn't posted that...it just reminds me I need to spend more $ again soon
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,999
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From: Life is just one big track event. Everything before and after is prep and warm-up and cool-down laps
Cruise-In III Veteran
Cruise-In IV Veteran
St. Jude Donor '12
If you want to use that argument......I say try doing several back to back 120+ mph to even 40-50 mph then tell me how well you think the C5 setup works.....about the same as the J55's. They both fade and spread apart. Spend the money on Wilwoods or better if you are serious about tracking the car.
The stock parts are fine for a few quick laps but if you are going to see 30+ minute sessions at full-tilt then spend the money and do it right.
The stock parts are fine for a few quick laps but if you are going to see 30+ minute sessions at full-tilt then spend the money and do it right.
And get some air in there to cool things off a little.
20 min sessions with my J55 and new pads - minimal fade
20 min sessions with 1/3 pad - faaadddeeee
Right now I must not be doing it right cause I don't have bad taper yet.
Wilwoods or other brake package will have to wait till after the roll cage. Until then I'll keep rotating between sets of J55's and run the C5 brakes when I don't have to worry about classing.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,740
Likes: 2
From: Winchester Virginia
OK, So will call them Stock TurboNators, or HackSaw's or whatever there called!http://www.joby.se/corvette/div/corvette_wheels/
Just for info.
R/Noland
P.S. Just as a note, with enough time, money and resources, Pretty much ANYTHING can be made to fit!
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 694
Likes: 27
From: St James New York
That being said, what size are your OEM '88 wheels? Are they 17'X9.5"?
I'm assuming you did the C4 ~ C5 brake upgrade successfully with your OEM '88 wheels. Where did you get the aftermarket caliper mounting brackets ~ did you like the supplier? How much?
Your saying very much what I want to hear, but several other forum members here have said I couldn't use my OEM '89 wheels with C5 brake calipers. I'm very confused as to wheather I should try this upgrade with my OEM wheels. Are you positive the C5 calipers will clear the '89 OEM wheels?
Thanks for the response and please elaborate on the details if you could.
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,961
Likes: 707
From: WI
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1565525996
I cannot say for sure yours will fit as in the above thread it is mentioned that some will fit and some will not. I had Z52 four 17x9.5" rims on mine and they fit. There was 1/8" between the rim and the top fins of the caliper. Before Z51L9889 posted that info I used to say that they would all fit, sorry for the doubt now. Perhaps measure?
I got the adapters from Jeffvette, www.pnwzr1.net
I cannot say for sure yours will fit as in the above thread it is mentioned that some will fit and some will not. I had Z52 four 17x9.5" rims on mine and they fit. There was 1/8" between the rim and the top fins of the caliper. Before Z51L9889 posted that info I used to say that they would all fit, sorry for the doubt now. Perhaps measure?
I got the adapters from Jeffvette, www.pnwzr1.net
