I have about $900 I am trying to put into my car. I want a new cam and heads and don't have a clue where to start.. I could use any suggestions or opinions. Keep in mind the car still needs to be a some what daily driver.. Thanks, Jim

 

A really good set of heads will cost more than $900, more like $2000. Expect $200 for a cam. You have to factor labor costs unless you intend to do it yourself. You'll also need probably $150 worth of gaskets and such.

All of that being said, heads and a cam will be a big disappointment on a stock TPI intake. Cams tend to increase upper end power, and give up low end power. The TPI intake runs out of breath at high RPM so it'll choke your heads and cam. You can quite possibly end up with a slower car because you give up a bunch of low end and the intake doesn't allow it to breath up top.

Best bang for the buck, I would start with a new intake. It will give you a bunch of power now, and open you up to make a lot more power later. Not to mention it's a lot easier and cheaper to install a new intake.

Edit - Didn't realize you had an 84. It is probably still worth looking at different intake / fuel injection solutions.

 

$500 for an x-ram intake, 300 for a set of roller rockers, and save the rest to work on your exhaust. A bigger cam in a crossfire is pointless unless the intake can move enough air to feed it.

Once the intake and exhaust is set up for your project, work on the valvetrain. Make sure you pick a cam that will work within the limits of the intake, as well as the heads. If you choose a streetable cam with low enough lift, you can get away with porting the stock heads and save yourself a lot of money.

 

My .02, I wouldn't mess with the roller rockers at this point. Intake, and headers. You can get the Hedman Elites for under $400.

 

He said he wanted a cam, and I figured rockers are an adequate substitute by changing the powerband and longer duration without the hassle of changing out the cam. It'll have a burbley idle without the negative effects.

 

Not disagreeing with that. I just think the headers are a more effective mod at this point, and it would be one less thing to buy when he does head/cam it.

 

As far as headers go, would you guys go with long or shortys?... what is the difference?

 

Long tube. The shortys are just that -- very short. Little gain compared to long tube.

 

Possibly as little as 10HP. Use the ones that best fit your installation needs/design/local laws.

Know though, a recent thread did not turn up a shorty for L98s. That should help make the decision easier!

 

Did you see the recent Conversion from TPI to miniram thread posted (linked to) by Anethes?

Guy had AFR 195s, cam, headers, and stock TPI before conversion. Picked up .3 tenths with the miniram. It wasn't slower with the stock intake. And, it was no where near as slow as a stock motor!

I'm not saying the stock TPI is right with a head/cam swap, but it shouldn't end up slower (unless the combination is really stupid/radical).

I've seen some recommend doing the TPI last (to save money up front).

Also, you can get a good set of (new) heads for $1,200-$1,500.

 

X-ram is discontinued.

This is easy
Dart iron eagle heads 600 bucks
2040 cam... 140 bucks
1.6 rr's 150 bucks
port your intake- Best bang for your buck!

And you'll be very happy!

and you got money left over.

This will take you from 15's to the 13's

 

That was a good thread however this post has nothing to do with this thread. Maybe I missed your point or you've forgotten the 84 is a TBI not TPI

 

I didn't say that ANY head / cam combo with the TPI will end up slower, I said it has great potential to do so. I've seen way too many people put way too radical a cam in their cars and then get pissed off when they don't run any better.

When I think of heads, I'm thinking LT1 head pricing. So you may be able to get a set of regular SBC heads for $1200-$1500, that's still $300-$600 more than he was talking about spending just for the parts, let alone labor, gaskets, etc. etc.

I recommended an intake because, in the case of the L98 something like the Holley Stealth Ram can give a very good power increase over stock, still look very clean and be very driveable without having to dig into the internals of the engine. It's a much less daunting task for somebody who is new to modifications. Being said, however, there are two problems with that idea. He's not running TPI, and the stealth ram won't clear the hood of the Vette.

No disrespect intended, but I've been around the block a few times when it comes to modifying cars and tuning them after their modifications. Most people who want a cam end up putting way too much cam in their otherwise stock cars and they end up with a basketcase that is either slower than stock, or marginally faster but completely un-driveable.

Rockers can change the powerband slightly by allowing more airflow but strictly speaking they do not change duration, this is a misconception. They may increase overlap because the valves, once open, get to a certain lift sooner, but completely open to completely closed duration will be the same. They also don't impact idle quality significantly. On a stock cam, through stock exhaust, you'd never hear them. This doesn't mean they're a bad mod. They're cheap and easy (provided you don't have to change the springs) and are usually good for 10 HP.

Now this sounds like a formula, but you won't have money left over. I see $10 left over and head gaskets alone cost more than that. This also doesn't account for labor. Just curious, what brand full roller rockers come in at a mere $150? Crane golds are typically closer to $300 and other brands are usually over $200.

Here's the question I have to ask, and you have to plan accordingly. Are these the only mods you ever plan on doing, or will you catch the bug and want more later? I ask because nothing sucks worse than doing the same work twice, or replacing otherwise new parts because they don't work well with some other new part. For example, you can spend $600 on a set of heads which may be just fine if you never intend to make any more power, or you could spend $1200 on a set that will make the same power as the $600's now but will make even more if you add headers and change the intake later. This is important because you won't be able to resale a set of $600 heads for $600.

I know that we all have to deal with the $$ issue, but if you sit down and make a total plan ahead of time, and spend a little bit more money up front, you can potentially save money in the long run. You can also avoid extra labor by not having to do the same work twice, and every step of the way will gain you some power rather than resulting in a car that might make less power than it did while you're waiting for your next round of upgrades.

Other important advice is to not forget the tuning! A computer controlled, fuel injected car will rarely take to heavy modifications without tuning. You might gain a little power in a few places, but it will never be completely right unless you get it tuned. Regardless of if you do this yourself or have somebody else do it, it cost $$ that must be accounted for in the total price.

 

Buy a used cam if you buy a cam. Here and on camaroz28 are both good for sale sections to shop. Factory roller cams never wear out and can be had fairly cheap compared to new. If you don't do the cam I would suggest the roller rockers in 1.6 ratio. The roller tip rockers are much cheaper than full rollers and will work good for what you are doing. The power gain is in the ratio, not the roller fulcrum. Talk to CFI-EFI about porting the crossfire, he will help you pick up tons of power. If you swap it out I think you have to change alot due to not having a tpi car to start with. Do the headers, long tubes if you can swing it. They also come up for sale used on the forums. Buy a used catback from an LT1 car, can be had for about $50, will last forever as they are stainless, and will help your power more and more the more you mod. Most all the parts on my car are used and I am very happy. I, like you, are on a budget and like to get the best bang for the buck. Installing thin (.015) headgaskets will up the power by upping the compression but I have no idea what pistons you have so make sure you look into valve to piston clearances before you do that. If your car is an auto and not a daily driver shop for a used higher stall torque converter. That will help you a ton, but it will likely cost you some gas mileage and you must know what your ultimate goals are and what cam and intake you will be running before you can properly choose a stall speed.

 

It's widely known that the 84 TBI intake cannot be touched except by a very skilled porter as it has very little to NO excess material. I'd look for a used X-ram before attempting to ruin the stock intake, just didn't know the website stopped making them.

 

I have to disagree with you. Many people here including myself have ported there own intake. A home ported intake can and will give you an additional 30-40 hp at the wheels. Proven fact. My first dyno sheet is under my corvette photos. Time consuming yes.. difficult to do no.
Good information on porting your own intake as well as other mods can be found here http://www.crossfire.homeip.net/
A new style intake for the CFI coming out in early 09 is here
http://www.crossfireinjection.net/DCS%20News.html
A good resource page about the intake options and TBI is here
http://www.swko.net/~lionsden/crossfire.htm

The mod formula I listed above will run with the stock ecm. Can it run more effectively with a tune sure it can. I now use the ebl/flash an am in the process of tuning myself. Best ecm upgrade you can do IMO.

TBI's and intake are a much different setup than the TPI, so you can't just throw any intake on it. Choices are limited. The mod list above can put anywheres between 240-260 rwhp without a tune.

Eventually throw in some long tubes,stall and gears and got a pretty quick car and a fun one to drive.

When I put my RR's in a few years ago I paid just under 150 bucks for them but I don't know the brand.

Pictured below is two ports of the CFI intake. Notice the port on the left has been ported. The one on the right is stock. Thats the restriction of the intake.

 

Agreed. You want it done right, learn how to do it yourself. It still costs money though. I am a fan of recommending a proven combo, just look at some of my hot cam posts.

Agreed, choices are very limited. I apologize for giving false hope, I didn't catch the fact that it was an 84 before I started typing, but thought that the information was still somewhat relevant so I left it.

Sounds like you got a good deal. Were they new or used? I'm running Scorpion 1.7's. Everybody told me that they would never work and they were a no name brand. Well, I had put my hands on them so I made the quality judgement for myself. I picked up a lot of power over my 1.6's and as for quality, well I've put 30k miles on it in the last 5 years and have never had a problem. I wouldn't be upset if they fell apart tomorrow, but that's not gonna happen.

WOW! Seems like I've seen that before but had long since forgotten. Some people instantly equate 'porting' to hogging the hell out of the ports. People greatly underestimate the value of just smoothing out the factory design and gasket matching. Proper porting is a skill that I'm afraid to say I do not have. I did work at a head porting place for a while doing assembly though. Even though I can't port myself, I can typically spot junk when I see it.

 

If you look back at your post, you said you WILL be disappointed with a head/cam swap and the use of a TPI. Your phrasing sounded too definite -- and the reason for my qualification. I agree with your intended point however, but felt emphasis on choosing the right cam might have been your point. Regardless of the intake, choosing the right cam, heads, port size, (i.e., combo) is always important.

Actually, there are some L98 head options that are less than $1,200. For an iron-headed car, I'm thinking $900 is doable. The iron version of the fast-burns for example... (forget the name) are something like $600. Patriot heads are less too.

Also, USR now sells a chopped version of the HSR. It came out during your hiatus from the forum. (Just letting you know, Nathan. I don't know how it would mate up to a TBI motor).

 

I will actually stand by my original statement. You can make more power than stock and still be disappointed, and most people are. Take a poll of the modified L98 cars and see how many of them have heads / cam and have a completely stock intake. Of those that do, ask those people what the next modification they would do would be if money was no object and see how many of them would say it's the intake.

I draw on first hand experience here. A friend of mine has an IROC that had a carb on it. He had a 350 block, heads, hot cam, headers. It made good power but he could never get the carb to be as streetable as he would like. He was constantly asking me this that and the other, but he couldn't ever get it right. His brother basically bought him a worn out 305 crate motor as a gift. The motor wasn't the big deal, but the TPI on top of it was, everything was complete, computer and all.

Now we all knew that the TPI wasn't optimal, but the concern was driveability. I did my research and burned him a chip. We did some tweaking. The car starts and runs great. We got it on the dyno and, even though it makes a lot more power than a stocker would have, he's still disappointed in it's performance as a whole. The ultimate goal is to put a stealth ram on it and it'll finally be the car he wants.

My friend makes more torque than he did with the carb and it's infinitely more driveable, but he's still disappointed. That's what I meant. Most people who delve into modifications want a lot, and that intake is a major restriction. I guess you can put heads and cam under a TPI and not be disappointed, but you didn't set your sights very high to start with.

Again though, it's really all a moot point, as the original poster doesn't have TPI.

 

Well thanks for clearing that up. My assumption was based on a couple f-body TBI friends and car show enthusiasts that said the intake was garbage and wasn't worth porting. Atleast now I can see the reason why the crossfire made less power, but I really think it was a ploy for Chevrolet to make the L98 seem better than it was. Same thing for LT1 vs. LS1.