Torque Converter doesn't lock anymore
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 520
Likes: 6
From: Elverson PA
Torque Converter doesn't lock anymore
I was wondering if anyone knows of a test to see if the actual torque converter lock up mechanism is shot or not. I have tested everything I think, have a new fourth gear switch, newish lock up solenoid (that tests ok on an ohm meter), appropriate voltage, etc. I have grounded the ALDL terminal "f" (I think that is the one from memory), and it still didn't lock up.
I do have a stored speed sensor code, but the speedo works fine. I have absolutely no idea what is wrong. I don't even know where to take the car. Everytime I drop the pan it is another $60 for new Amsoil at around $12 quart plus a gasket. I am sick of this.
Then people have told me not to drive the car. Some people say early 700r4's overheat w/o lock-up. I have learned mine is a second generation 700r4, so hopefully that isn't an issue. The fluid is still perfect looking. Seems the easiest fix now is a trans cooler.
I don't want to take it to a dealer, but maybe that is all I can do. I don't trust that they will put my Amsoil in the car and not their toolbox either. This is for an 85 vette.
Thanks---Dave
I do have a stored speed sensor code, but the speedo works fine. I have absolutely no idea what is wrong. I don't even know where to take the car. Everytime I drop the pan it is another $60 for new Amsoil at around $12 quart plus a gasket. I am sick of this.
Then people have told me not to drive the car. Some people say early 700r4's overheat w/o lock-up. I have learned mine is a second generation 700r4, so hopefully that isn't an issue. The fluid is still perfect looking. Seems the easiest fix now is a trans cooler.
I don't want to take it to a dealer, but maybe that is all I can do. I don't trust that they will put my Amsoil in the car and not their toolbox either. This is for an 85 vette.
Thanks---Dave
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,171
Likes: 1
From: Warwick RI
Get it on the highway in OD at speed and just put light pressure on the brake (brake lights only). If you feel/hear/see the RPMs come up about 300 or so your lock up is working.
Without lockup you will generate more heat but it may not be in the tranny. An old school way to test it would be to run a temporary 12V to the lock up wire in the harness on the tranny (i forget the color). Flip the switch when up to speed and see if it locks up. I run a toggle for this function and it is no problem. The brake switch will still function if you forget to flip it off.
Good luck
Without lockup you will generate more heat but it may not be in the tranny. An old school way to test it would be to run a temporary 12V to the lock up wire in the harness on the tranny (i forget the color). Flip the switch when up to speed and see if it locks up. I run a toggle for this function and it is no problem. The brake switch will still function if you forget to flip it off.
Good luck
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 858
Likes: 5
From: Fl,USA
I was wondering if anyone knows of a test to see if the actual torque converter lock up mechanism is shot or not. I have tested everything I think, have a new fourth gear switch, newish lock up solenoid (that tests ok on an ohm meter), appropriate voltage, etc. I have grounded the ALDL terminal "f" (I think that is the one from memory), and it still didn't lock up.
I do have a stored speed sensor code, but the speedo works fine. I have absolutely no idea what is wrong. I don't even know where to take the car. Everytime I drop the pan it is another $60 for new Amsoil at around $12 quart plus a gasket. I am sick of this.
Then people have told me not to drive the car. Some people say early 700r4's overheat w/o lock-up. I have learned mine is a second generation 700r4, so hopefully that isn't an issue. The fluid is still perfect looking. Seems the easiest fix now is a trans cooler.
I don't want to take it to a dealer, but maybe that is all I can do. I don't trust that they will put my Amsoil in the car and not their toolbox either. This is for an 85 vette.
Thanks---Dave
I do have a stored speed sensor code, but the speedo works fine. I have absolutely no idea what is wrong. I don't even know where to take the car. Everytime I drop the pan it is another $60 for new Amsoil at around $12 quart plus a gasket. I am sick of this.
Then people have told me not to drive the car. Some people say early 700r4's overheat w/o lock-up. I have learned mine is a second generation 700r4, so hopefully that isn't an issue. The fluid is still perfect looking. Seems the easiest fix now is a trans cooler.
I don't want to take it to a dealer, but maybe that is all I can do. I don't trust that they will put my Amsoil in the car and not their toolbox either. This is for an 85 vette.
Thanks---Dave
Sounds like the solenoid valve for the lockup could be cracked. It happens all of the time. Verify that you are getting the signal to lock it up. If so pull the pan and check the connections . If good replace the lockup solenoid again. You should be able to see the crack in the plastic if you look closely.
Cheers,
John
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,364
Likes: 38
From: King George VA
Dave,
Can't really help with your torque converter question, but may be able to help cut your costs a little. The AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program price for the AMSOIL ATF is about 33% less than what you quoted above. Dropping you a PM with more info.
Can't really help with your torque converter question, but may be able to help cut your costs a little. The AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program price for the AMSOIL ATF is about 33% less than what you quoted above. Dropping you a PM with more info.
__________________
C66 Racing #66 NASA ST2, SCCA T2
AMSOIL Dealer (Forum Vendor)
AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program (Members buy at Wholesale - a savings of about 25%)
C66 Racing #66 NASA ST2, SCCA T2
AMSOIL Dealer (Forum Vendor)
AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program (Members buy at Wholesale - a savings of about 25%)
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 520
Likes: 6
From: Elverson PA
Thanks for the responses. I bet your right John89. It all started shortly after having the old soleniod replaced during a trans rebuild. I'll try that since it is only $20 plus a gasket. I'll just be really careful to keep my fluid clean and reuse it.
About the Amsoil, I am a preferred customer, but by the time you figure in their membership fee, hefty new surcharge, shipping and taxes, I felt like I'd been raped. The case of trans fluid was around $120, so I guess that is more like $10/qt. A case of motor oil is near $100. When I last ordered, I saw the prices online and all, but was suprised to see the huge surcharge that I was never informed about. I called and vowed to not order from them again. Maybe now that the price of oil is down they dropped the surcharge though, but I doubt it. I should scan my reciept and post it. <end rant>
Dave
About the Amsoil, I am a preferred customer, but by the time you figure in their membership fee, hefty new surcharge, shipping and taxes, I felt like I'd been raped. The case of trans fluid was around $120, so I guess that is more like $10/qt. A case of motor oil is near $100. When I last ordered, I saw the prices online and all, but was suprised to see the huge surcharge that I was never informed about. I called and vowed to not order from them again. Maybe now that the price of oil is down they dropped the surcharge though, but I doubt it. I should scan my reciept and post it. <end rant>
Dave
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 90,675
Likes: 304
From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
Power to the TCC lockup sol. comes from the Gauges Fuse and through the TCC/Cruise Brake Sw.
When the ECM calls for TCC lockup it pulls the ground line down to complete the circuit. You can force TCC lockup by jumpering ALDL pin F to B. Also a test light connected across these pins will glow when the ECM is NOT calling for lockup and will go out when the TCC calls for lockup.
With the ignition On test the two pins at the brake switch to assure power is passing between pins A & B when the pedal is NOT depressed.
When the ECM calls for TCC lockup it pulls the ground line down to complete the circuit. You can force TCC lockup by jumpering ALDL pin F to B. Also a test light connected across these pins will glow when the ECM is NOT calling for lockup and will go out when the TCC calls for lockup.
With the ignition On test the two pins at the brake switch to assure power is passing between pins A & B when the pedal is NOT depressed.
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,364
Likes: 38
From: King George VA
The surcharge ended in Sept.
That said, prices really haven't come down either. AMSOIL instituted the surcharge because suppliers were increasing prices so fast this year that AMSOIL's catalogs and price lists were out of date price wise about as fast as they could make them. AMSOIL wasn't the only company hurt by the rapidly rising prices of basestocks this spring/summer. AMSOIL put this info out to their dealers in August for the period covering the past 12 months:
- basestock prices rose 47%
- diesel additive prices rose 24%
- 2-cycle additive prices rose 27%
- automotive additive prices rose 25%
- plastic packaging prices rose 14%
- plastic bottle top prices rose 21%
- steel drum prices rose 39%
- phosphate rock prices rose 1900% (not a typo) since Mar 07
- sulfer prices rose 650% since Q2 07
All of these increases hurt the whole industry. Price increase Mar - Aug 08 (AMSOIL to customer, the rest to distributors so cost increases passed on to the consumer varied by outlet):
- AMSOIL 16% (post surcharge)
- Petro Canada 18%
- Castrol 20%
- ExxonMobil 24%
- Citgo 25%
- Shell 25%
- Chevron 27%
- Conoco Phillips 28%
Pro
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 602
Likes: 0
From: North Bay Ontario
Thought I'd chip in on the subject of TC lock up with more questions than answers. I had the 700R4 in my '85 rebuilt a couple of years ago, shortly after I got the car, so don't know how it performed in the past. I find that my TC locks up earlier than I would prefer and it stays locked up later than preferred. Takes a fair bit of acceleration to make it unlock but it will. It will unlock on deceleration and with a touch of the brake very readily. If going up a good grade and touching the brake, it will unlock, but the second I take my foot off the brake, it locks up again. Car seems to lug down too much before I get the unlock. Is this normal? Any suggestions?
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,838
Likes: 31
From: Australia
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,171
Likes: 1
From: Warwick RI
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 858
Likes: 5
From: Fl,USA
Thought I'd chip in on the subject of TC lock up with more questions than answers. I had the 700R4 in my '85 rebuilt a couple of years ago, shortly after I got the car, so don't know how it performed in the past. I find that my TC locks up earlier than I would prefer and it stays locked up later than preferred. Takes a fair bit of acceleration to make it unlock but it will. It will unlock on deceleration and with a touch of the brake very readily. If going up a good grade and touching the brake, it will unlock, but the second I take my foot off the brake, it locks up again. Car seems to lug down too much before I get the unlock. Is this normal? Any suggestions?
John
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,065
Likes: 1
From: Jasper Texas
Get it on the highway in OD at speed and just put light pressure on the brake (brake lights only). If you feel/hear/see the RPMs come up about 300 or so your lock up is working.
Without lockup you will generate more heat but it may not be in the tranny. An old school way to test it would be to run a temporary 12V to the lock up wire in the harness on the tranny (i forget the color). Flip the switch when up to speed and see if it locks up. I run a toggle for this function and it is no problem. The brake switch will still function if you forget to flip it off.
Good luck
Without lockup you will generate more heat but it may not be in the tranny. An old school way to test it would be to run a temporary 12V to the lock up wire in the harness on the tranny (i forget the color). Flip the switch when up to speed and see if it locks up. I run a toggle for this function and it is no problem. The brake switch will still function if you forget to flip it off.
Good luck
Alright, I've got a quick question for ya. I changed from 3.73s to 3.45s in the rear a few months back, now the speedo reads out 58mph when I'm at 70...so, the coverter is locking up way later than it should, and its showing on the gas mileage. Would putting in the switch allow me to lock it up earlier?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 936
Likes: 2
From: Tyrone PA
Alright, I've got a quick question for ya. I changed from 3.73s to 3.45s in the rear a few months back, now the speedo reads out 58mph when I'm at 70...so, the coverter is locking up way later than it should, and its showing on the gas mileage. Would putting in the switch allow me to lock it up earlier?
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
My torque converter locks up in 2nd gear. If you can't get it to unlock by pressing the gas pedal very slightly I would say your TV cable is not adjusted correctly. My problem was at wide open throttle it would pull the cable back out of adjustment due to spring wear in the throttle body. I fixed it with a spring on the throttle linkage itself. If you don't understand the TV cable system you should read this article.
http://www.tvmadeez.com/article/index.php
This is the link to the part that fixed my shifting problems
http://sonnax.com/announcements/AS1-01K-1.pdf
http://www.tvmadeez.com/article/index.php
This is the link to the part that fixed my shifting problems
http://sonnax.com/announcements/AS1-01K-1.pdf
Pro
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 602
Likes: 0
From: North Bay Ontario
Yes its normal. You can change all of those settings inside your bin. Thats one of the benefits of self tuning. You can tune for your driving habits. Unfortunately the cost may be the down side. Also if you have someone else to tune it (i.e. a professional) chances are they won't get it where you like it on the first try unless you are there with them tuning and driving.
John
John
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,171
Likes: 1
From: Warwick RI
Alright, I've got a quick question for ya. I changed from 3.73s to 3.45s in the rear a few months back, now the speedo reads out 58mph when I'm at 70...so, the coverter is locking up way later than it should, and its showing on the gas mileage. Would putting in the switch allow me to lock it up earlier?
I can lock mine anytime witht the switch so the answer is yes but it would be just as easy to change your speedo gear. I have been locking mine around town to keep the heat down lately.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,065
Likes: 1
From: Jasper Texas
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 936
Likes: 2
From: Tyrone PA
I do know otherwise, at least in my case on my '89. I went from 2.59 gears to 3.07 gears and the new gear wouldn't fit so I was told I needed a new vss. My trans guru told me to take off the vss, flip it over, then reinstall it. It is eccentric-like so that when installed the other way it allows for the bigger driven gear. He was 100% correct. You should not need a new vss if your car is like mine, you will just need the proper driven gear and flip the vss. Be careful removing the vss, they sometimes stick and need a little prying, and they crack/break easily. Check with PeteK for any further assistance, he is the best.
