No reverse lock-out
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 407
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From: Palm Coast Florida
No reverse lock-out
Well, I took my car to a local shop for a new clutch because I thought it was a job beyond my ability. Well, it was appearantly beyond the ablilty of my local shop as well. I picked up the car the following day and found that the reverse lock-out didn't work. It also has no back-up lights.
I took the car back to the mechanic and he's had it for over a week. He can't figure out why there's nothing keeping you from moving the gear selector past the 5th & 6th level when you upshift. Can anyone here tell me what I need to tell him so I can get my car back?
I took the car back to the mechanic and he's had it for over a week. He can't figure out why there's nothing keeping you from moving the gear selector past the 5th & 6th level when you upshift. Can anyone here tell me what I need to tell him so I can get my car back?
Le Mans Master
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From: Australia
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: No HOA, New Hampshire
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St. Jude Donor '09
Your lawyer should tell him to get it fixed even if he has to take it to a stealership on his dime and pay you the cost of a rental for all the days you were without the use of your Vette.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,363
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From: 1994 LT1 Coupe 6-speed with FX3 & 2000 LS1 Vert 6-Speed with F45 Hunterdon County, NJ
Presume your car is as noted in your profile (93 z06).
Further presume you have the round plastic 'lift' ring on the shifter which is normally lifted to allow entry into reverse.
My assumption is either the lift ring does not lift, or lifts much less than it used to, true?
The lift ring is attached to a metal shaft via a small allen set-screw. The metal shaft is attached to a metal bar which when lifted above part of the metal frame of the shifter, allows the shifter arm to move to the passenger-side of the car and thereby into reverse.
Therefore, my guess on the fix is that the allen set-screw must be loosened, allowing the metal shaft to drop-down (while in neutral), and then re-tighten the allen set-screw.
Once done correctly, you should no longer be able to get into reverse unless lifting the lift ring -- which should travel upward about 1/2 - 1 inch.
BTW, regarding the back-up lights, believe it is a plug on the side of the tranny, so either it was not plugged back in, or the wire was pinched or damaged during the re-install.
Further presume you have the round plastic 'lift' ring on the shifter which is normally lifted to allow entry into reverse.
My assumption is either the lift ring does not lift, or lifts much less than it used to, true?
The lift ring is attached to a metal shaft via a small allen set-screw. The metal shaft is attached to a metal bar which when lifted above part of the metal frame of the shifter, allows the shifter arm to move to the passenger-side of the car and thereby into reverse.
Therefore, my guess on the fix is that the allen set-screw must be loosened, allowing the metal shaft to drop-down (while in neutral), and then re-tighten the allen set-screw.
Once done correctly, you should no longer be able to get into reverse unless lifting the lift ring -- which should travel upward about 1/2 - 1 inch.
BTW, regarding the back-up lights, believe it is a plug on the side of the tranny, so either it was not plugged back in, or the wire was pinched or damaged during the re-install.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: moraga ca
Do people always have to resort to lawyers? Maybe things can be worked out between both parties.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
From: Palm Coast Florida
That is correct, it's a '93 Zo7. You no longer have to lift the ring in order to place the car into reverse.
The other issue is that it's hard to find 5th gear when leaving 4th. The way it used to work is that you could move the shifter to the right until you were against the reverse lock out, then move it up and you found 5th. That made it quick to find the gear. Now there's no block, so you have to search around to find 5th.
I suspect the problem has something to do with the plugs on the transmission. The 6-speeds have a feature which forces you to skip from 1st to 4th when at low RPM. The previous owner of my car added an over-ride to this so that you can drive the car normally. I don't have the diagram for the device but I believe it goes into the plugs to the transmission. My mechanic has probably damaged something, or connected something to the wrong places.
Thanks for everyone's input so far.
The other issue is that it's hard to find 5th gear when leaving 4th. The way it used to work is that you could move the shifter to the right until you were against the reverse lock out, then move it up and you found 5th. That made it quick to find the gear. Now there's no block, so you have to search around to find 5th.
I suspect the problem has something to do with the plugs on the transmission. The 6-speeds have a feature which forces you to skip from 1st to 4th when at low RPM. The previous owner of my car added an over-ride to this so that you can drive the car normally. I don't have the diagram for the device but I believe it goes into the plugs to the transmission. My mechanic has probably damaged something, or connected something to the wrong places.
Thanks for everyone's input so far.
Race Director
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From: Overland Park Kansas
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Ask him if he removed the shifter to drop the transmission. If so, he probably didn't put it back together correctly. SHIMS?
There is a small rod INSIDE the shifter arm. When you pull up on the lock-out ****, the rod pulls up. Because I haven't disassembled a shifter, I don't know how that works. However, I wonder if it prevents the shifter from moving over to the reverse position (vs controlling something inside the transmission.) B&M and Hurst shifters do not have this option -- which makes me wonder if the lock-out is completely achieved with the shifter itself.
Could the placement of shims control correct functioning of the shifter? (This question is to those who've serviced the shifter.)
The CAGS defeat plug would not cause your issue. It's a dummy plug that simply prevents the connection of wiring.
This is something I'm certain that Bill at ZFDoc could answer off the top of his head!
There is a small rod INSIDE the shifter arm. When you pull up on the lock-out ****, the rod pulls up. Because I haven't disassembled a shifter, I don't know how that works. However, I wonder if it prevents the shifter from moving over to the reverse position (vs controlling something inside the transmission.) B&M and Hurst shifters do not have this option -- which makes me wonder if the lock-out is completely achieved with the shifter itself.
Could the placement of shims control correct functioning of the shifter? (This question is to those who've serviced the shifter.)
The CAGS defeat plug would not cause your issue. It's a dummy plug that simply prevents the connection of wiring.
This is something I'm certain that Bill at ZFDoc could answer off the top of his head!
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From: Phila., PA burbs
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I know a couple "attorneys" that are very familiar with C4's and likely ZF's but they don't do "road calls"!
It certainly sounds like the job could be handled by someone other than an "attorney"!
Does the clutch operation seem to be OK? Ask if they dismantled the shifter and removed it from the transmission!! If they didn't your reverse detent could be a simple as an adjustment of the lift ring. If they dismantled it further it could likely be substantially more difficult to adjust but not impossible! The back-up light is a switch problem, a crushed wire, blown fuse from a crushed wire or maybe it's just not connected. Maybe they've even got the CAGS connected to the switch harness!!!
Your "overall" reaction to the situation seems to be "damn tolerable"! That's "commendable" but it's not getting your car "fixed"!!
It certainly sounds like the job could be handled by someone other than an "attorney"!
Does the clutch operation seem to be OK? Ask if they dismantled the shifter and removed it from the transmission!! If they didn't your reverse detent could be a simple as an adjustment of the lift ring. If they dismantled it further it could likely be substantially more difficult to adjust but not impossible! The back-up light is a switch problem, a crushed wire, blown fuse from a crushed wire or maybe it's just not connected. Maybe they've even got the CAGS connected to the switch harness!!!
Your "overall" reaction to the situation seems to be "damn tolerable"! That's "commendable" but it's not getting your car "fixed"!!
Last edited by WVZR-1; Feb 17, 2009 at 04:22 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2004
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My point is his car is being worked on by someone that obviously does NOT know what he is doing when it comes to working on this particular type of car.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,456
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From: MichAgain
Ask him if he removed the shifter to drop the transmission. If so, he probably didn't put it back together correctly. SHIMS?
There is a small rod INSIDE the shifter arm. When you pull up on the lock-out ****, the rod pulls up. Because I haven't disassembled a shifter, I don't know how that works. However, I wonder if it prevents the shifter from moving over to the reverse position (vs controlling something inside the transmission.) B&M and Hurst shifters do not have this option -- which makes me wonder if the lock-out is completely achieved with the shifter itself.
Could the placement of shims control correct functioning of the shifter? (This question is to those who've serviced the shifter.)
The CAGS defeat plug would not cause your issue. It's a dummy plug that simply prevents the connection of wiring.
This is something I'm certain that Bill at ZFDoc could answer off the top of his head!
There is a small rod INSIDE the shifter arm. When you pull up on the lock-out ****, the rod pulls up. Because I haven't disassembled a shifter, I don't know how that works. However, I wonder if it prevents the shifter from moving over to the reverse position (vs controlling something inside the transmission.) B&M and Hurst shifters do not have this option -- which makes me wonder if the lock-out is completely achieved with the shifter itself.
Could the placement of shims control correct functioning of the shifter? (This question is to those who've serviced the shifter.)
The CAGS defeat plug would not cause your issue. It's a dummy plug that simply prevents the connection of wiring.
This is something I'm certain that Bill at ZFDoc could answer off the top of his head!
Right, lifting the ring moves a small blocking piece, a "gate" of sorts, in the shifter mech allowing it to go over to the reverse position. It's not really in the tranny itself. Newer year C4's omitted this so not all have it, and yes, the B&M et al shifters do not utilize this feature either.
As for the reverse lights, there is a switch on the fwd, left side (upper) of the tranny. There are other plugs on the tranny as well, but these are different (grey connectors on mine, like 6 of them). Previous poster may be right about the rev switch not being hooked up or wire broken in the process.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
From: Palm Coast Florida
I spoke to the mechanic again yesterday. He called the local Chevy dealer who told him he needs to replace a switch. This is probably the reverse light switch , which is important but not the whole problem. I'll tell him to look at the collar adjustment. Is this adjustment something I can do with household tools? Has anyone written a tech article on this? I really want my car back.
I doubt this guy will ever get this right. I've tried several mechanics in this area and never found one with any talent - this guy's the best I've found. Can anyone recommend anyone in my area? Since I've moved here I've found nothing but incompetence in every area, not just mechanics.
I doubt this guy will ever get this right. I've tried several mechanics in this area and never found one with any talent - this guy's the best I've found. Can anyone recommend anyone in my area? Since I've moved here I've found nothing but incompetence in every area, not just mechanics.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,363
Likes: 7
From: 1994 LT1 Coupe 6-speed with FX3 & 2000 LS1 Vert 6-Speed with F45 Hunterdon County, NJ
It's simple --
1. press the leather shifter boot downward until you see the bottom of the plastic lift ring.
2. examine the lower portion of the lift ring, you should see a very small allen key hole.
3. loosen the allen key (counter clockwise), the metal rod behind it should drop downward (based on the spring in the shifter pulling the rod and 'gate' downward).
4. retighten the allen key.
5. your done...
This all assumes the shifter was re-installed correctly.
Likely the mechanic just mis-understood the way it worked and incorrectly lifted the metal rod before tightening the allen key on the lift ring.
Last edited by theadmiral94; Feb 20, 2009 at 12:05 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,456
Likes: 7
From: MichAgain
Also. use a flashlight and maybe a mirror to make sure the wiring is connected to the reverse light switch. It's up above the clutch slave cylinder and if you have large hands can be a bear to get to (on my '91 it was anyway). IIRC the exhaust is right in that area too, further blocking access/view.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,363
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From: 1994 LT1 Coupe 6-speed with FX3 & 2000 LS1 Vert 6-Speed with F45 Hunterdon County, NJ
One other concern about the shifter and your 'mechanic'.
There are 3 'boots' associated with the shifter. Unfortunately, if the shifter was removed from the tranny, frequently the 'mechanic' does not reinstall the lowest 'boot'.
This lowest rubber 'boot' wraps completely around the shifter and is 'attached' to the shifter via 3 plastic 'wire' ties (one very large one) to the upper portion, and 2 to the rearward 'output' shafts. This boot keeps road dirt from the shifter mechanism and is critical to the life and smothness of the shifter, not to mention helps keep out road noise and heat from the tranny.
The next 'boot' is designed to just keep road dirt, noise, and heat below the shift tunnel hole and just lightly seals against the underside of the shift tunnel hole.
The top most 'boot' is the nice looking 'leather' boot you see inside the car.
Since you have concerns about your 'mechanic', you might want to verify the lowest boot is still there (can see it from below the car).
There are 3 'boots' associated with the shifter. Unfortunately, if the shifter was removed from the tranny, frequently the 'mechanic' does not reinstall the lowest 'boot'.
This lowest rubber 'boot' wraps completely around the shifter and is 'attached' to the shifter via 3 plastic 'wire' ties (one very large one) to the upper portion, and 2 to the rearward 'output' shafts. This boot keeps road dirt from the shifter mechanism and is critical to the life and smothness of the shifter, not to mention helps keep out road noise and heat from the tranny.
The next 'boot' is designed to just keep road dirt, noise, and heat below the shift tunnel hole and just lightly seals against the underside of the shift tunnel hole.
The top most 'boot' is the nice looking 'leather' boot you see inside the car.
Since you have concerns about your 'mechanic', you might want to verify the lowest boot is still there (can see it from below the car).
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
From: Palm Coast Florida
OK, I called Bill to make sure it would be OK for my mechanic to call him. He did so hopefully we're on the right track now. Of course my mechanic gave him the song and dance " I didn't touch it - it must not have worked when he brought it here". As if I'm lying about the reverse lock-out not working. He drove it into the building, so he should know that it worked. I argue that point with him when it's done. Undbelievable.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
From: Palm Coast Florida
Yes, he replaced that switch on Friday, but it didn't help the problem. I'm sure I'll be paying for that too.