GM Workers
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,106
Likes: 126
From: S.L.C. UT
I have been thru the Corvette plant. I hear the assembly wage is over $50 an hour, and with benefits, is closer to $65 to $70 a hour. Alot of the jobs on the assembly line, you do need skills. But I have seen alot, I mean alot of jobs monkeys could do. I saw one guy sitting on his little chair reading a book, and every 5 minutes or so he would get up, and use a robotic machine to lift the seats in the car, and tighten the bolts. It probably took him 30-60 seconds to do his job. Then he was waiting, reading his book for another several minutes for the next car to come by. And there was another guy putting C6 flag emblems on the back of the car. How about making $70 a hour to do that or put plastic clips in bumpers. I think alot of jobs could be automated by machines, which would reduce the cost of building cars. They need to be more in line with the inport builders. And paying retired employees lifetime benefits. It all adds to the price of new cars.
I think they need to be competitive with the Japanese builders. They build good cars, and can still make money.
Don't get me wrong, I am a hardcore GM fan, but there needs to be some changes.
I think they need to be competitive with the Japanese builders. They build good cars, and can still make money.
Don't get me wrong, I am a hardcore GM fan, but there needs to be some changes.
Last edited by tpi 421 vette; May 14, 2009 at 12:06 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,689
Likes: 4
From: Yucaipa CA
they had their time much like the dinosaur and now they want us lower paid employees taxes to keep their jobs ... After the incredible troubles of dealing with a new 23,000 97 camaro I would never buy another new GM. whats the UAW going to ask for next royalties on everytime a GM vehicle is sold when it's used? You brought it on yourself guys live with it. You act like your the only ones being laid off and deserving of media attention for your fight. Sorry UAW I would be more compelled to help out a homeless person then worry about your job. Sorry for the brutality but this is just my opinion, yes I feel sorry for you but feel much worse for someone who is hurting much worse then you like homeless children, children with cancer etc etc.
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
From: Sulphur KY
Its not the UAW's fault it is corporate greed even if the people at GM took pay/benefit cuts GM still would not have lowered the price of there cars. Ford brought in cheaper labor with a lower top out in pay and there prices still haven't come down.
BUT if the price of gas would not have tripled in the last 5 years we would have never been in the situation that we are in right now.
just my .02
BUT if the price of gas would not have tripled in the last 5 years we would have never been in the situation that we are in right now.
just my .02
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,270
Likes: 26
From: Winchester VA
Cruise-In V Veteran
That's not greed, that's good business practice. You really think Ford should have lowered the price of their cars? They are just barely getting by as it is.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 402
Likes: 7
From: New Tazewell Tennessee
CDREECE, A good point that our leaders just dont get. The fuel prices going up will simply offset the gains the economy is making. Some numbers look good now but if the gas price keeps its upward climb we will fall right back down overall. They are out of touch with the reality of the situation concerning gas prices.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,213
Likes: 2
From: Cincinnati oh
Some days your the wind shield some days your the bug
I tend to agree with the price of gas, it is the most blatent form of price fixing in the country, yes because the oil co lobbyist and donations a blind eye is always turned.
Not that I am blaming the goverment They just fan the flames of misconduct with stupdity.
Kinda makes these words mean a little more dont they
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
I tend to agree with the price of gas, it is the most blatent form of price fixing in the country, yes because the oil co lobbyist and donations a blind eye is always turned.
Not that I am blaming the goverment They just fan the flames of misconduct with stupdity.
Kinda makes these words mean a little more dont they
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 0
From: Suwanee,Ga
Aaahhh
TECHNICALLY......this needs to go to the General form [ pardon the pun].
My guess is it would really fly there.
Al Franken and Rush Limbaugh can join in there along with Ayn Rand and Karl Marx.
TJM
TECHNICALLY......this needs to go to the General form [ pardon the pun].
My guess is it would really fly there.
Al Franken and Rush Limbaugh can join in there along with Ayn Rand and Karl Marx.
TJM
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,839
Likes: 22
From: San Diego, Ca
Maybe this belongs in PR&C? I empathize with anyone losing a job, but my concern is that with so many needing jobs, the solution is rapidly becoming one that dumps experience (they're too old, too stubborn and paid too much) for those willing to work for half as much (but still need to figure out velcro from shoelaces). That's beginning to spill over into the public sector (if we can train 17 year olds to kill Terrorists, why keep a Beat Cop with 25 to 35 years of experience - at three times the cost?). The fact of the matter is that a lot of these assemblyline/retail jobs would disappear anyway and we need to retrain for whatever is around the corner. And I fault the Unions for not doing more of that to ensure jobs - Managers at all levels for forsaking appropriate motivation in exchange for short term profits - and Bailout Programs that offer none of this. And if a future job is only designing/servicing the machine that makes it or sells it, we need to keep some experience around to prevent too much "GIGO" from wrecking havoc with the next Yugo (or Shuttle Launch for that matter). It's probably bigger than this - generational conflicts often are - but that's how I see it.
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Instructor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 216
Likes: 4
From: Linton Indiana
I think that if GM made some cars like the old ones they'd stay in business for a long time. Problem is the government won't let them! I see all the government mandates for smog control, gas mileage, safety crash tests, etc. Problem is people like the ones in the Senate dictate what they want but have no clue as to how to achieve it!
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,027
Likes: 1
From: Woodland CA
I think that if GM made some cars like the old ones they'd stay in business for a long time. Problem is the government won't let them! I see all the government mandates for smog control, gas mileage, safety crash tests, etc. Problem is people like the ones in the Senate dictate what they want but have no clue as to how to achieve it!
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 0
From: Suwanee,Ga
Instead of the car companies hiring more lawyers and lobbyists, they should have hired more Engineers to solve problems. Look at the Japanese industry -that is what they do. Lets face it. Gas is not going to be around for ever. Some of the electric motors are pretty awesome that are coming out. Some can do 0-60mph in 4 seconds with tons of torque. Just imagine the next generation Vette with a high powered electric motor. What would be weird is how quite it would be.
They took them BACK from the people in CA that had the test model [ hundreds now, not two] and destroyed them. This was 2003. A street able cool little computer.
People got arrested over this because the did want to give back!!
And GM WOULD NOT SELL THEM!!!! I mean Cops with guns, they took some back at the point of a gun. One or two left in museum, and GM gutted those.
They trashed a fantastic opportunity THEN screwed with the CA law mandating Zero emissions in 2003 when they had the only marketable product!!!! They gave up 10% of the domestic market
Why?? good question I know I raised hell about in my Proxy letter,
What did management do instead??
Bought HUMMER.
This is short sighted to the point of STUPID!!
MGMT is too stupid to be greedy, they are too STUPID to walk and chew gum, and too stupid to run a Corp.
The Union is now no asset to GM, but they got what they could through long negotiation [ with STUPID mgmt] and are not guilty of STUPIDITY!! [ now greed maybe?].
Geez Tom, how do you really feel????
TJM
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 402
Likes: 7
From: New Tazewell Tennessee
The hammer is falling on dealerships now...what will be next guys? This is the vicious cycle that I was worried about. Now this is hurting people that don't have the big Union representation. Over half a dozen dealers in a 150 mile radius of my house gone. This is sad, no matter what underlying costs. 
Racer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 456
Likes: 3
From: Sumner Texas
this about sums it up a Letter from Greg Knox a GM Supplier
Abridged letter from Troy Clarke, President of General Motors
- followed by a response from our son, Gregory Knox:
Dear Employee,
Next week, Congress and the current Administration will determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation's history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis.....................As an employee, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard.
Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support.
Troy Clarke
President
General Motors North America
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Gregory Knox,
In response to your request to call legislators and ask for a bailout for the United States automakers please consider the following, and please also pass this onto Troy Clark, the president of General Motors North America for me.
You are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has bred like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping the nation, awaiting our new "messiah" to wave his magical wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep "living the dream".
The dream is over!
The dream that we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement minded "laborers" without paying the price for these atrocities and that still the masses will line up to buy our products
Don't tell me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I have called on Ford, GM, Chrysler, TRW, Delphi, Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countless other automotive OEM's and Tier ones for 3 decades now throughout the Midwest and what I've seen over the years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting.
Mr Clark, the president of General Motors, states:
There is widespread sentiment in this country, our government and especially in the media that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management. It is not.
You're right, it's not JUST management, how about the electricians who walk around the plants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hours while they drag *** so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour week
How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics for putting out too many parts on a shift and for being too productive (mustn't expose the lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?) Do you really not know about this stuff?!?
How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea:
over the last few years we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors.
What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years?!?
Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them?
The K car vs. the Accord?
The Pinto vs. the Civic?!?
Do I need to go on?
We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades.
Time to pay for your sins, Detroit .
I attended an economic summit last week where a brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieu surprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of "bailout money". Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems, but despite what people like George Bush and Troy Clark would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day and something else would happen. Where there had been greedy and sloppy banks, new efficient ones would pop up. That is how a free market system works. It does work if we would let it work!
But for some reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right and that capitalism doesn't work; that we need the government to step in and "save us". Save us, hell we're nationalizing and unfortunately too many of this once fine nation's citizens don't even have a clue that this is what's really happening but they sure can tell you the stats on their favorite sports teams yeah THAT'S important.
Does it occur to ANYONE that the "competition" has been producing vehicles, EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades now in this country?...
How can that be???
Let's see - -
Fuel efficient -
Listening to customers -
Investing in the proper tooling and automation for the long haul -
Not being too complacent or arrogant to listen to Dr W Edwards Deming 4 decades ago -
Ever increased productivity through quality, lean and six sigma plans -
Treating vendors like strategic partners, rather than like "the enemy" -
Efficient front and back offices -
Non union environment -
Again, I could go on and on, but I really wouldn't be telling anyone anything they really don't already know in their hearts
I have six children, so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone to bail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into. My children do this on a weekly, if not daily basis, as I did at their age. I do for them what my parents did for me (one of their greatest gifts, by the way). I make them stand on their own two feet and accept the consequences of their actions and work them through.
Radical concept, huh?
Am I there for them in the wings? Of course but only until such time as they need to be fully on their own as adults
I don't want to oversimplify a complex situation, but there certainly are unmistakable parallels here between the proper role of parenting and government.
Detroit and the United States need to pay for their sins.
Bad news people, it's coming whether we like it or not.
The newly elected Messiah really doesn't have a magic wand big enough to "make it all go away" I laughed as I heard Obama "reeling it back in" almost immediately after the vote count was tallied "we might not do it in a year or in four"! Where was that kind of talk when he was RUNNING for the office
Stop trying to put off the inevitable!
That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000!
People who jump across a border really don't deserve free health care benefits!
That job driving that forklift for the big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year!
That couple whose combined income is less than $50,000 really shouldn't be living in that $485,000 home!
Let the market correct itself people, it will. Yes it will be painful, but it's gonna be painful either way, and the bright side of my proposal is that on the other side of it is a nation that appreciates what is has and doesn't live beyond its means and gets back to basics and redevelops the work ethic that made it the greatest nation in the history of the world and probably turns back to God.
Sorry, don't cut my head off. I'm just the messenger sharing with you the "bad news"
Gregory J Knox
President
Knox Machinery, Inc.
Franklin, Ohio 45005
Abridged letter from Troy Clarke, President of General Motors
- followed by a response from our son, Gregory Knox:
Dear Employee,
Next week, Congress and the current Administration will determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation's history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis.....................As an employee, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard.
Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support.
Troy Clarke
President
General Motors North America
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Gregory Knox,
In response to your request to call legislators and ask for a bailout for the United States automakers please consider the following, and please also pass this onto Troy Clark, the president of General Motors North America for me.
You are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has bred like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping the nation, awaiting our new "messiah" to wave his magical wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep "living the dream".
The dream is over!
The dream that we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement minded "laborers" without paying the price for these atrocities and that still the masses will line up to buy our products
Don't tell me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I have called on Ford, GM, Chrysler, TRW, Delphi, Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countless other automotive OEM's and Tier ones for 3 decades now throughout the Midwest and what I've seen over the years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting.
Mr Clark, the president of General Motors, states:
There is widespread sentiment in this country, our government and especially in the media that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management. It is not.
You're right, it's not JUST management, how about the electricians who walk around the plants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hours while they drag *** so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour week
How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics for putting out too many parts on a shift and for being too productive (mustn't expose the lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?) Do you really not know about this stuff?!?
How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea:
over the last few years we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors.
What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years?!?
Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them?
The K car vs. the Accord?
The Pinto vs. the Civic?!?
Do I need to go on?
We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades.
Time to pay for your sins, Detroit .
I attended an economic summit last week where a brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieu surprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of "bailout money". Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems, but despite what people like George Bush and Troy Clark would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day and something else would happen. Where there had been greedy and sloppy banks, new efficient ones would pop up. That is how a free market system works. It does work if we would let it work!
But for some reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right and that capitalism doesn't work; that we need the government to step in and "save us". Save us, hell we're nationalizing and unfortunately too many of this once fine nation's citizens don't even have a clue that this is what's really happening but they sure can tell you the stats on their favorite sports teams yeah THAT'S important.
Does it occur to ANYONE that the "competition" has been producing vehicles, EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades now in this country?...
How can that be???
Let's see - -
Fuel efficient -
Listening to customers -
Investing in the proper tooling and automation for the long haul -
Not being too complacent or arrogant to listen to Dr W Edwards Deming 4 decades ago -
Ever increased productivity through quality, lean and six sigma plans -
Treating vendors like strategic partners, rather than like "the enemy" -
Efficient front and back offices -
Non union environment -
Again, I could go on and on, but I really wouldn't be telling anyone anything they really don't already know in their hearts
I have six children, so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone to bail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into. My children do this on a weekly, if not daily basis, as I did at their age. I do for them what my parents did for me (one of their greatest gifts, by the way). I make them stand on their own two feet and accept the consequences of their actions and work them through.
Radical concept, huh?
Am I there for them in the wings? Of course but only until such time as they need to be fully on their own as adults
I don't want to oversimplify a complex situation, but there certainly are unmistakable parallels here between the proper role of parenting and government.
Detroit and the United States need to pay for their sins.
Bad news people, it's coming whether we like it or not.
The newly elected Messiah really doesn't have a magic wand big enough to "make it all go away" I laughed as I heard Obama "reeling it back in" almost immediately after the vote count was tallied "we might not do it in a year or in four"! Where was that kind of talk when he was RUNNING for the office
Stop trying to put off the inevitable!
That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000!
People who jump across a border really don't deserve free health care benefits!
That job driving that forklift for the big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year!
That couple whose combined income is less than $50,000 really shouldn't be living in that $485,000 home!
Let the market correct itself people, it will. Yes it will be painful, but it's gonna be painful either way, and the bright side of my proposal is that on the other side of it is a nation that appreciates what is has and doesn't live beyond its means and gets back to basics and redevelops the work ethic that made it the greatest nation in the history of the world and probably turns back to God.
Sorry, don't cut my head off. I'm just the messenger sharing with you the "bad news"
Gregory J Knox
President
Knox Machinery, Inc.
Franklin, Ohio 45005
Mr. Knox,
I can't begin to verbalize my appreciaton for your post!
Not only are you absolutely right on the money in everything you said, but you gave me evidence that I can show to a fellow worker proving that not ALL business owners and upper management people are greedy jerks.
Your beliefs as indicated in the above, match up with mine so perfectly, that I will have to make sure that I don't plagurize(sp?) your writing.
I firmly believe that we would be better off already today, had the government, both Bush and B.O. kept their government money in the treasury and NEVER given a dime to the banks OR the car makers. Yes, it would have been bullet biting time for all of us, but it would have brought this country back to reality and we would have been stronger than ever on the other side. My $0.02.
May God Bless,
Doc
Racer
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 327
Likes: 0
From: Kingston/Ontario
sorry, but I beg to differ. The GM workers thru being in a union have forced their compensation up to unrealistic levels, causing vehicle prices to be too high. I work for an AC Delco distributor, and if we made the same wages as the average GM worker we would not be able to stay in business or remain competetive.
I can't blame anyone at GM for accepting the pay offered to them, but it can't last forever
Why should a guy screwing in 2 screws on each vehile as it passes
earn 50,000 per year and have benefits equalling much more to boot????
I can't blame anyone at GM for accepting the pay offered to them, but it can't last forever
Why should a guy screwing in 2 screws on each vehile as it passes
earn 50,000 per year and have benefits equalling much more to boot????GM paid Wagoner a salary of $1.6 million in 2007, along with $1.8 million in non-equity incentive compensation and nearly $700,000 for other compensation that includes insurance benefits, security, aircraft expenses and other factors.
GM, which reported a record $39 billion net loss in 2007, released the figures in a proxy statement on Friday afternoon that was filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission
Last edited by uxb101; May 15, 2009 at 02:32 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,213
Likes: 2
From: Cincinnati oh
Yea scumbag car dealers loosing thier jobs I am all broken up! I have NEVER met a car sales person that wasnt a liar and a cheat. GM has tried to scre me out of 2k How?
I purchaserd an aveo, then they called me 3 days later told me the price of the car had gone up $1000.00 I laughed and hung up
They tried it again (different dealer) when i bought our HHR.
These guys have been the very face and attuide for detroit for yeas.
Man up boys and take your medicine
I purchaserd an aveo, then they called me 3 days later told me the price of the car had gone up $1000.00 I laughed and hung up
They tried it again (different dealer) when i bought our HHR.
These guys have been the very face and attuide for detroit for yeas.
Man up boys and take your medicine
Pro
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 686
Likes: 4
From: Austin Texas
yeah, the frinckin "new world order" and their "globalization" plans meant no protectionist measures from the US CONgress to protect the industries our forebears founded, so now GM , Chrysler, etc. are forced to cut not only production, but the number of dealerships, affecting communities and families all over the several states of the Union, all so the irresponsible and thieving bankers could get "bailed out".
I say let the banks go bust, and bail out the manufacturing sector, if anyone.
Wealth is generated by manufacturing, not banking.
Fractional reserve banking, is nothing short of a more disguised and modern form of slavery.
Next, they will brainwash the people to trample all over each others' rights.
I visited my machinist today. Machinists are way cool, different from most of the "I want something for free" types that are roaming out there, including loan sharks, welfare recipients, wall street bankers, and most "elected " officials. All produce NOTHING, although some gov. is necessary, like law enforcement, provided no unconstitutional laws are ever enforced. Both my grandfathers started out as machinsts at Eaton Corp. Talk about straight-shooters. Those guys had more common sense than Woodrow Wilson.
My guess is that Sloane would quickly recognize what is happening in the industry is its takeover by the collective bankers - the communists who want to administer every aspect of everybody's life, by selecting themselves to do it. Hats off to them if they can pull it off, but without hardworkers like the GM folks, they will become masters only of the cesspool they create.
My favorite division at GM is Buick. I love the vettes, but that last version of Riviera was/is a timeless classic.
I say let the banks go bust, and bail out the manufacturing sector, if anyone.
Wealth is generated by manufacturing, not banking.
Fractional reserve banking, is nothing short of a more disguised and modern form of slavery.
Next, they will brainwash the people to trample all over each others' rights.
I visited my machinist today. Machinists are way cool, different from most of the "I want something for free" types that are roaming out there, including loan sharks, welfare recipients, wall street bankers, and most "elected " officials. All produce NOTHING, although some gov. is necessary, like law enforcement, provided no unconstitutional laws are ever enforced. Both my grandfathers started out as machinsts at Eaton Corp. Talk about straight-shooters. Those guys had more common sense than Woodrow Wilson.
My guess is that Sloane would quickly recognize what is happening in the industry is its takeover by the collective bankers - the communists who want to administer every aspect of everybody's life, by selecting themselves to do it. Hats off to them if they can pull it off, but without hardworkers like the GM folks, they will become masters only of the cesspool they create.
My favorite division at GM is Buick. I love the vettes, but that last version of Riviera was/is a timeless classic.
Last edited by ChrisWhewell; May 15, 2009 at 03:58 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 402
Likes: 7
From: New Tazewell Tennessee