Got a bit of a problem with a machnic. He is doing a rebuild on my 89 L-98 and isn't holding to my specifications. How can I tell if he has put a stock L-98 block or the ZZ4 block that I requested. He sayes he has it in the car now so I can't just look for the 4 bolt main. Are there casting ID's for ZZ4 and L-98s? I actually worried that he may be trying to put some 350 block he pulled out of some other car. Needless to say I'm sure a law suit will follow this rebuild.

Thanks

 

Try calling a GM dealership. They might be able to tell you the casting numbers. From what I understand though, the ZZ4 and the L98 are identical blocks. I do understand that you expect what you ask for, and if your mechanic screwed you over, SUE HIS ****!!!! :smash:

P.S. - even though you joined because of bad circumstances -

WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!!! :cheers:


[Modified by dtorc4, 7:41 PM 2/6/2002]

 

There's got to be a way for you to tell if it's what you wanted. If nothing else, once it's all back together you can drop the oil pan and look at the mains like you said you want to.

This is exactly why I was present any time my mechanic did any work. I saw the entire thing torn apart and put together.

 

Make him drop the oil pan if you think he is trying to screw you. Pretty easy to do.

 

Do you know where it came from? Is there a crate laying around his shop you can glom a part number off of? It may not hurt to snoop around his dumpster. If you can detemine the source, a phone call may reveal exactly what it is that he bought. I hope you are being paranoid. But it never hurts to CYA. Better to be wrong, than cheated.

 

Well, where there's paranoia, there's usually a good reason for it.

Drop in unannounced and ask if he'd mind you taking a look at how the job is going. (He CAN'T refuse.. .if he does that's practically an admission of some sort of "wrong doing")
Peruse the job and see if you can get the numbers off the block.
Then you can go to Scoggins-Dickey or Jim Pace Chevy web site and see if the number matches with the ZZ4 blocks they sell.
Ask him where he got the block. Was it NEW?

Ask him to give you a copy of the invoice for the block.
Doesn't matter what he paid, you guys agreed on a price prior to him getting the block didn't you?
(Don't let him use the "confidential information" excuse on you over the block paperwork.)

Take a look at it the paperwork and the block to see if it looks as you'd expect.

Did he put the high volume oil pump on it? IF not this is a great reason to pull the pan. Ask him if you buy the pump if he'll change it for you and then tell him that just out of "curiosity" you want to watch the pump change.
Then you'll get a look inside.

The casting numbers are on the rear skirt and will be nigh impossible to see if the block is in the car.
Same with the number under the right cylinder bank head... if the accesories have been put back on it'll be impossible to see.

Anyone KNOW where to look for the ID numbers?

What about a warranty from the supplier on the block? Can he show you any papers supporting a warranty?
Any papers from where the block came from?

Was it a ZZ4 short block or a bare ZZ4 block?

I KNOW at some point in time you trusted and had confidence in the guy.
Obviously he has done something to discount your confidence in him.
A good one on one talk with him is in order to try and get back to that point.
If he's not interested then I think you have found your answer.

Remember this: YOU ARE THE CUSTOMER. As such YOU have the right to pull the plug on the job at any time. You CAN expect to pay for the work that's been done to this point even if YOU choose to cancel the rest of the work.

Hope you can get it all straightened out. Good luck.

 

VetteNutJim,
I said I HOPED he was being paranoid. I don't necessarily think that he IS. Other than that, we're in complete agreement.

godzgod, What makes you suspicious? Like VetNutJim, said, something tipped you off.

 

GM part number for the ZZ4 block is 10105123, the casting numbers can be 10243880 or 14093638.

What did you buy, a bare block or a ZZ4 partial block? Where did claim this block was coming from, a rebuild of a block he had or a new block?

Theres got to be a paper trail if the block is new.

Whats the rest of the story? Why do you think he's not following your specs.

 

I think I'll take a trip to see him. What happened was that when I gave him the motor I said "tear it down I want it rebuit" It had been sitting in my grauge for about 6 months untouched because I was driving one day and it blew white smoke on me, figured the manifold gasket that was leaking finnaly gave up. I take it to this recomended machanic that has 2 vettes himself. About a week after I took the car to him he calls me and tells me that the car has a spun bearing. I asked how he determined this and he said that he heard it when he started it. I was very upset that he turned over the engine after I specifically told him not to and that I don't care what is wrong with it since it has 120K miles. He also gave me some crap about testing the oil and it indicated that a bering failed. So I go down there to find out just what the hell is going on down there and talk to him and he is able to convince me that he isn't a total moron and decide that we should tear the motor down and see the problem and if it's bad we will get a new crate motor and figured that the worse case would run $7000. That was like 6 months ago. He hasn't made one phone call to me in this 6 month time but I make sure I call him at least once ever two weeks to find out what is happening. We also have an agreement that no parts will be purchased with my approval. Next thing I know I run into a friend that knows this guy and he tells me that the mecanic has the heads done. I give him a call and tell him that I need to get some stuff out of my car (I actually have things in the car that I need to get out) so he meets me down at the shop. There he mentions that reworking my heads cost him $1650. This is what started my agravation with him. I would have purchased Edelbrock Perfomer Centerbolts for $995 from Sallee Chevy. He also said that "no matter what the cost of your engine rebuild will not exceed $7000" This is a fair number if the correct parts are used. There is no way I'd pay much more than 5K for a stock L-98 rebuild. Oh, the block question came up because he mentioned that the head castings are the only thing that is carried over from the old motor (I wonder when he planned on telling me my car is not matching numbers anymore). I have to wonder...if the block was so bad how did the heads live on. I think it has something to do with him starting the engine, probably ovaled it. Thanks for the help, I'll get it figured out and let you know what happens. The main thing I want to avoid is pulling my car out because it's in pieces now and I'll probably never get them all back that's why I've been excepting of his less than exceptable business ways. One thing that I'd tell someone looking to do a rebuild is research the macanic even if your freinds have know him since birth.

 

Welcome to the forum.
Sounds to me like you didn't do your homework before you picked someone to do your motor :(

 

Sorry to hear of your issues with this guy...sounds to me like hes not a reliable person to work with.

A full basic rebuild of your engine,plus removal and install shouldnt exceed 2500- 3,000 if they rebuild your motor.

I was quoted in writing 2600 to remove,rebuild it all,new gaskets,etc etc by a Shop that specialized in GM engines.
To save money, I pulled the engine myself,they came and picked it up, re did everything for 1550 and dropped it back at my garage door.
However I had the means to do it at home...I know many out there do not.

They had my engine for 2 weeks and I even dropped in twice to talk to the manager and dropped off other misc parts they cleaned in their hot tanks for free and they even beadblasted my engine brackets and etc for free.The visits there allowed me to inspect their work and I saw all the bad parts out and all the refinished ones and new parts installed.They were happy to take a few minutes to show me the work in progress.
They even called to verify the camshaft I was using and what specifc items I needed to be sure it was what I wanted.

Of course,getting high performance work and ZZ4 blocks and etc can push the price tag closer to 7,000.
I got lucky and found the right people to work with...but I shopped around and asked around and was glad the advice I got was good.
Not trying to make you feel bad for your choice,but letting you know theres a few good shops out there and you may want to reconsider having him complete the job if hes screwing you around.

Good Luck and keep us posted.
Btw welcome to the forum.
:)

 

Tell him you want the ZZ4 invoice, period. You don't need to justify why. It sounds like you are getting a royal screwing. For $7k you should have a 400 hp 383 Super Ram motor, not a stock L98. The whole deal sounds pretty fishy.

PS, get the old block back, it belongs to you. Some day you may WANT the original motor and it will also prove whether it was smoked or not.


[Modified by Fastguy, 12:11 AM 2/7/2002]

 

Well there are a couple of problems here. First I think you need to do a little research and know what you are talking about before you go down there. It would not be uncommon for a mechanic to start the car so he can see for himself what is wrong. Yes it could have spun a bearing on him or on you, who knows but it is not his responsibilty to fix it, remeber it is your car with the problems. $7000 is a bit steep, but not the 383 SR motor, especially if he is removing and installing, I've seen higher. I did not catch what year your car was, but I would not make a big issue over the original motor, I have you ever tried to actually look and see if the one you have now is original? If you are having a trust issue than my best advice to you is to confront him with it. Don't give him $7000 and then decide you are not happy. Chances are he is being honest with you and you are the one lacking the knowledge. That's ok though that is why the forum is here, not everyone can know all about Corvettes. Do yourself a favor and research this and go talk to your mechanic and explain to him your problems with the current situation.

 

yeah, I used to run Mopar but then finnaly found my vette it's an 89. The thing was perfect before this: 13 sec 1/4s, cruise at 150, and got 30mpg at 80mph. So I've been doing research and this is what I've come up with for parts and prices for this build. The thing is I don't 100% know if I have things like the lenght of the push rods right or if the flywheel is the right one. With these parts costing like $4300 it leaves alot of the 7K left for things like plugs and so on. He is doing the pull and install too and giving it a 3 year warrenty. I think he is honest but I think that he doesn't know how to do a build on a C4 vette as he has a 67 and a 68. I mean, honestly $1650 for a head rebuild? this is pure bunk! Thanks all for your help I think I'll like this Forum.

Block ZZ4 - 4 Blot Main 1 piece rear main seal
Crank 4340 Forged Steel 3.480 stroke
Bearings (main)
Rods
Bearings (rod)
Pistons Hypereutectic 4VR (9.6:1 w 64cc heads)
Rings
---------
Use ZZ4 Assembled shortblock from Scoggin-Dickey Parts Center $1,889.95

Oil pump - HV for vette with pick up, shaft, & stud PN: SES-3-60-08-002 from Summit Racing $54.95
Oil pan - chrome stock 5 qt 1 piece rear main seal PN: SUM-G3503 from Summit Racing $43.99

Flywheel - 168 tooth, SFI Approved TCI PN: TCI-399773 from Summit Racing $84.95

Heads
Valves
Springs
Guides
Seals
Keepers
Retainers
Hardened seats
---------
Use Edelbrock Performer Centerbolt Assembled Heads from Sallee Chevrolet (pair) $995.00

EdelBrock head Bolt Kit - PN:8550 from Summit Racing $81.39

Rocker Arms - Sallee Chevrolet Proform roller-rockers PN:66914C $145.00

Push Rods - Crane, 7.178 len. 5/16 dia. (4130) PN: CRN-10621-16 from Summit Racing $109.95

Cam shaft - Crane PowerMax hydraulic roller, 284/292 from Summit Racing $259.95
Lifters - Crane hydraulic roller lifters PN: CRN-10530-16 from Summit Racing $169.95

Gaskets
Head
Manifold
Exhaust
---------
Use Trick Flow PN: TFS-31400907 from Summit Racing $105.95

Timing chain &
Gear assembly - Comp Cams Hi Tech true double roller, billet, PN: CCA-3136 from Summit $71.99
Cover - Miloden, Steel with gold anodizes PN: MIL-65501 from Summit Racing $17.39

Harmonic balancer - Fluidampr Streetdampr 6 3/4 dia. From Summit Racing PN: FLU-716242 $159.95

Distributor - Should be ok and has new HEI coil, cap and wires, if not use MSD Pro Billet (includes gear)
Distributor gear - bronze from Summit Racing $35

Water Pump - use current pump it is brand new

Fuel pressure regulator - JET adjustable regulator, T-6 billet PN: JET 61501 from Summit Racing $79.99

TOTAL PARTS COST = $4305.35

:nopity

 

I don't know if GM still does this,
but on the older chevy engines they stamped
an ID into the cyl head deck on the right hand
(or Passenger) side of the block.
It is found at the front of the deck and IS
visible with the head in place.
This stamping will contain a series of #'s with
a specific suffix to ID the block to the car.
Take your registration with you to inspect the
block for possible VIN match.
According to the, "Corvette Black Book", your engine
Could have one of the following suffixes:

ZRA- 350ci, 240/245hp, man trans, engine oil cooler
ZRB- 350ci, 240/245hp, auto trans
ZRC- 350ci, 240/245hp, auto trans, engine oil cooler

Good luck, I hope all your fears are unfounded.

 

My block had it there like you say. My heads had the same kind of number right next to it.