AFR Heads
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 112
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From: Lone Tree CO
AFR Heads
After a hack porter turned my heads into swiss cheese I have to purchase new heads.
I have decided to get AFR 180's. They come with guide plates and say you should use standard rollers.
I already have a set of 1.6RR self aligning and I hate the thought of buying another set.
I have had three opinions;
1. Machine shop said take the guide plates and replace with 1/8" washers.
2. AFR salesman #1 said use the guide plates make sure pushrods are properly sized so not to wear guide plate.
3. AFR salesman #2 absolutely no, buy new RR.
Anyone have any experience with this?
Thanks
Ken
I have decided to get AFR 180's. They come with guide plates and say you should use standard rollers.
I already have a set of 1.6RR self aligning and I hate the thought of buying another set.
I have had three opinions;
1. Machine shop said take the guide plates and replace with 1/8" washers.
2. AFR salesman #1 said use the guide plates make sure pushrods are properly sized so not to wear guide plate.
3. AFR salesman #2 absolutely no, buy new RR.
Anyone have any experience with this?
Thanks
Ken
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
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From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
The guidplates are about the same thickness as a ARP headbolt washer. Dont know why this wouldnt work. Or just leave the guidplates on and use a non self aligning rocker either way. If I was using a large by huge cam I would use guidplates.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
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From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
If you said something about a big cam/high-rpm application #3 is best. Otherwise, I would agree with Cuisinartvette and say options 1 & 2 are correct. Washers should work. If hardened pushrods were used under your self-aligning rockers, I'd think you could keep the guideplates.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,344
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From: Texas
You absolutely can not use self-aligning rockers on heads with guide plates.....well....at least not for long since in no time you'll be pulling the heads due to worn valve stem tips and metal shards in the engine.
The first thing you need to do is verify that the roller rockers you have will work with the specific valves in your heads. Some of the AFR heads use 8mm LSx style valve stems. If they will work, then you can shim under the rocker arm stud as the machine shop suggested or buy new studs.
In addition to the above, self-aligning rockers generally use a 3/8" stud while most aftermarket heads including the AFRs use a 7/16" stud. In other words you'll need new studs anyway if this is the case.
Personally I would sell those rockers and buy new.
The first thing you need to do is verify that the roller rockers you have will work with the specific valves in your heads. Some of the AFR heads use 8mm LSx style valve stems. If they will work, then you can shim under the rocker arm stud as the machine shop suggested or buy new studs.
In addition to the above, self-aligning rockers generally use a 3/8" stud while most aftermarket heads including the AFRs use a 7/16" stud. In other words you'll need new studs anyway if this is the case.
Personally I would sell those rockers and buy new.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,141
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From: Metairie Louisiana
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,108
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From: S.L.C. UT
Personally, I would sell your self aligning rockers, and buy non self aligning rockers, and use the guide plates.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
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From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
AFR's default with 3/8" studs. 7/16" studs are an option for a few more dollars.
Last edited by GREGGPENN; Jun 19, 2009 at 01:47 PM.
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Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Valencia CA
Self aligning rockers can not be used with the Eliminators if you omit the guideplates as they are meant to self align over an 11/32 valve, not an 8mm. Could you use them with guideplates....honestly perhaps you could if the guideplates kept the rockers properly located but it seems kind of hack though....I would rather do it right with a quality non self aligning rocker. Jegs has some private label Crane knockoffs that are very affordable and you can sell the rockers you own now.
Ported stock head?....not in the same league
As I feel like a guy doing this sometimes
I will simply leave it at that.....
-Tony
Ported stock head?....not in the same league
As I feel like a guy doing this sometimes
I will simply leave it at that.....-Tony
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
Likes: 446
From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Consistent and accurate information might help prevent some of your frustration. As seen in the OP, two conflicting answers were given by your guys.
I had the same issue regarding another question. When I asked about the need to upgrade to 155# springs for a 5000 rpm application using an XFI cam profile, you said it was "a necessity". (I still have that email). However, both your tech guys and others in both CF and TGO forum said it was not.
After trying to pass your recommendation on to others wanting to use XFI cams at a higher 5800 rpms, I was heavily challenged. The resulting consensus was that I would not have "lost valve control" in my application -- and that I didn't "need" the upgrade. Subsequently, three of us called AFR tech for a definitive answer. AFR tech guys reiterated that 155# springs were "unnecessary" under 5800 rpms.
Hopefully, you'll take this msg and consider creating a more unified voice from your tech department.
gp
BTW: I apologize to the OP. I was also told self-aligning rocker would work on AFRs. I didn't go with that option because I thought non-aligning were going to cost less.
I had the same issue regarding another question. When I asked about the need to upgrade to 155# springs for a 5000 rpm application using an XFI cam profile, you said it was "a necessity". (I still have that email). However, both your tech guys and others in both CF and TGO forum said it was not.
After trying to pass your recommendation on to others wanting to use XFI cams at a higher 5800 rpms, I was heavily challenged. The resulting consensus was that I would not have "lost valve control" in my application -- and that I didn't "need" the upgrade. Subsequently, three of us called AFR tech for a definitive answer. AFR tech guys reiterated that 155# springs were "unnecessary" under 5800 rpms.
Hopefully, you'll take this msg and consider creating a more unified voice from your tech department.
gp
BTW: I apologize to the OP. I was also told self-aligning rocker would work on AFRs. I didn't go with that option because I thought non-aligning were going to cost less.
Last edited by GREGGPENN; Jun 19, 2009 at 02:17 PM.
Team Owner
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From: Boston, Dallas, Detroit, SoCal, back to Boston MA
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
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From: Kempner Texas
Self aligning rockers can not be used with the Eliminators if you omit the guideplates as they are meant to self align over an 11/32 valve, not an 8mm. Could you use them with guideplates....honestly perhaps you could if the guideplates kept the rockers properly located but it seems kind of hack though....I would rather do it right with a quality non self aligning rocker. Jegs has some private label Crane knockoffs that are very affordable and you can sell the rockers you own now.
Ported stock head?....not in the same league
As I feel like a guy doing this sometimes I will simply leave it at that.....
-Tony
Ported stock head?....not in the same league
As I feel like a guy doing this sometimes
I will simply leave it at that.....-Tony
Jake
West Point ROCKS!
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
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From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
I think we're talking about an LT1 motor here. Yours are for an L98. (Note the OP has 93vette in his ID.)
A more relavent contribution would be your direct comparison of AFR heads to another option. The heads you're selling are part1 of the comparison. The AFR heads are going on now, right?
Last edited by GREGGPENN; Jun 19, 2009 at 02:23 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,014
Likes: 18
From: Raleigh, NC
Yes, AFR head install is under way. It's tough right now because I can only work on the car in the middle of the night. It's been hot as Hell here lately, and 95 degrees/95% humidity, in a non-air conditioned garage is not my idea of fun. However, late at night it's tolerable.
I'm hoping to get close to finishing it this weekend.
I didn't see where he said what year it was, and I'm too lazy to click profiles. It's also a shameless plug for my heads.
I'm hoping to get close to finishing it this weekend.
I didn't see where he said what year it was, and I'm too lazy to click profiles. It's also a shameless plug for my heads.
