Best handling C4 ever!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,054
Likes: 120
From: AZ
The car was optimized for max G, not for the irregularities found in street driving. Remember the magazines articles claiming the first-ever 1 G lateral in a production car?
I suspect that the OP's driving skills will be more of a factor than this Vette or that one.
Additionally, the Vette is a big car and tight course layouts favor smaller cars.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 10
From: College Station TX
My '84 rides quite nicely with the original Bilsteins revalved by them to Challenge specs and the stock Z51 springs.
The car was optimized for max G, not for the irregularities found in street driving. Remember the magazines articles claiming the first-ever 1 G lateral in a production car?
I suspect that the OP's driving skills will be more of a factor than this Vette or that one.
Additionally, the Vette is a big car and tight course layouts favor smaller cars.
The car was optimized for max G, not for the irregularities found in street driving. Remember the magazines articles claiming the first-ever 1 G lateral in a production car?
I suspect that the OP's driving skills will be more of a factor than this Vette or that one.
Additionally, the Vette is a big car and tight course layouts favor smaller cars.
Of course driving skills matter for auto-x, more than anything else, BUT that wasn't the point of this thread. I don't know the driving skill levels of the posters in this thread, but I strongly suspect none of us have ever, or will ever, win any race on the national level.
While auto-x does favor smaller cars, plenty of SCCA AS national championships have been won by C4's over small cars, such as S2K.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,966
Likes: 4
From: Made In America
St. Jude Donor '10-'11
So, this is kind of a odd quiestion but, can the C4 easily beat the S2000 in a auto cross stock vs stock(maybe vette lowered) or is it pretty much a drivers test....C4 being automatic and S2000 being a stick, just curious. Thanks.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,564
Likes: 109
From: Austin Texas
AutoX is all momentum...maintain momentum and don't unbalance the car much. But hard applications of brake followed by a heavy foot on the throttle and you'll see slow lap times. The phrase I remember most is "Slow down and you'll go faster"...and a lot of times that is 100% correct.
Watch the really fast guys out on the course and you'll see it...SMMOOOOTH! It looks like they are going slow, but when the time comes up you see how fast they really went.
Practice, practice, practice!!!
Max G’s
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,751
Likes: 78
From: Monroe OH
NCM Sinkhole Donor
Comes down to the driver and the course...if they lay the course out to give you some legs the C4 will hand the S2000 their a$$. But tights courses with a driver that can't squeeze the power on will kill the vette.
AutoX is all momentum...maintain momentum and don't unbalance the car much. But hard applications of brake followed by a heavy foot on the throttle and you'll see slow lap times. The phrase I remember most is "Slow down and you'll go faster"...and a lot of times that is 100% correct.
Watch the really fast guys out on the course and you'll see it...SMMOOOOTH! It looks like they are going slow, but when the time comes up you see how fast they really went.
Practice, practice, practice!!!
AutoX is all momentum...maintain momentum and don't unbalance the car much. But hard applications of brake followed by a heavy foot on the throttle and you'll see slow lap times. The phrase I remember most is "Slow down and you'll go faster"...and a lot of times that is 100% correct.
Watch the really fast guys out on the course and you'll see it...SMMOOOOTH! It looks like they are going slow, but when the time comes up you see how fast they really went.
Practice, practice, practice!!!
I read it through this time
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,054
Likes: 120
From: AZ
No, I don't remember the magazine articles, as I wasn't born yet when the '84 came out in early '83.
Of course driving skills matter for auto-x, more than anything else, BUT that wasn't the point of this thread. I don't know the driving skill levels of the posters in this thread, but I strongly suspect none of us have ever, or will ever, win any race on the national level.
Of course driving skills matter for auto-x, more than anything else, BUT that wasn't the point of this thread. I don't know the driving skill levels of the posters in this thread, but I strongly suspect none of us have ever, or will ever, win any race on the national level.
I don't understand or appreciate your ire at my post targeted to his street driving, too. Any serious driver knows, as was stated, that smoothness, through practice and track knowledge, etc. rules over the car itself. If this is his initial foray into the sport, perhaps he could spent his money better on driving school(s) than on a marginally better car.
Then I was not (gladly) an Aggie.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 10
From: College Station TX
So, I was autocrossing when you were in diapers.
I don't understand or appreciate your ire at my post targeted to his street driving, too. Any serious driver knows, as was stated, that smoothness, through practice and track knowledge, etc. rules over the car itself. If this is his initial foray into the sport, perhaps he could spent his money better on driving school(s) than on a marginally better car.
Then I was not (gladly) an Aggie.
I don't understand or appreciate your ire at my post targeted to his street driving, too. Any serious driver knows, as was stated, that smoothness, through practice and track knowledge, etc. rules over the car itself. If this is his initial foray into the sport, perhaps he could spent his money better on driving school(s) than on a marginally better car.
Then I was not (gladly) an Aggie.
I'm really not sure what your problem is, since we both agree that OP shouldn't be swapping cars for the best if he is new to auto-x, since he'll be holding it back for a long, long time.
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Instructor
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: Bedford TX
Do the rules allow you to add options available for your particular year car? For example: can you add 11 inch rear wheels to a 96 Z51 since they were available on the GS? If so, that would seem to be the ticket to me...The Z51 had all the "good Stuff" in 96 Big brakes, stiffer springs, stiffer gas shocks, big radiator, etc...(including a very under rated LT4.)
Last edited by S & K Dunn; Jun 25, 2009 at 12:40 AM. Reason: Spelling fix
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 10
From: College Station TX
Do the rules allow you to add options available for your particular year car? For example: can you add 11 inch rear wheels to a 96 Z51 since they were available on the GS? If so, that would seem to be the ticket to me...The Z51 had all the "good Stuff" in 96 Big brakes, stiffer springs, stiffer gas shocks, big radiator, etc...(including a very under rated LT4.)
As has been said before (but I'll say it again), power doesn't help much. The '96 GS/CE GS clone does OK, but the 89-91 have done much better. 89-91 got much stiffer springs than anything in 96, shocks are free to change to anything with up to 2 adjustments, big radiator and big brakes don't help (though all the Z51 got the big brakes).
89-91 Z51 are the fastest stock around an auto-x course.
In order to keep whalepirot happy, I'll mention that auto-x is 70% driver, 25% tire, and 5% car. I, of course, didn't learn this from my limited experience, he has, after all, been auto-xing since before I was alive, but I was told that by some people with national championship jackets.
Last edited by Mojave; Jun 25, 2009 at 12:45 AM.
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: Bedford TX
Where's the Love?
I have no doubt the driver is the key element in the fast around the track equation and I know very little about official SCCA sanctioned events. I’ve had ’85, ’86, ’88, ’90 and ’96 C4’s, all Z51s and my 96 is the best handling of the bunch. It is a GS “clone” however with 11 inch rubber and slotted/drilled rotors (probably not allowed by SCCA rules.) I used to dabble in autocross events; usually sponsored by clubs and not SCCA sanctioned but even running on street tires I never placed lower than 3rd (before the brake upgrade.) I think the ability to accelerate hard and brake hard before the turns made the difference. It certainly wasn’t my driving skills. And one more thing: Then I was not (gladly) an Aggie. “There was a Rabbi, a hooker and an Aggie driving cross country…” Seriously; Where’s the Love for the Aggies?
Drifting
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,581
Likes: 2
From: The Motor City
No, early '89s with ZF6 transmissions came with 3.54:1 rear end ratio gears. About mid-way through production in '89 the rear end ratio was changed to 3.33:1 on all ZF6 equipped cars. This change was brought about for better street drivability and improved fuel economy.
Last edited by TheCorvetteKid; Jun 26, 2009 at 11:27 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
From: Delray beach FL
on the track what makes the difference is the sway bars mostly.
Z07 compared with Z51 is about the same as comparing Z51 with stock.
Z51 is fine for road trips only.
Z07 all the way for track use. the FX3 are being efficient ones associated with
the big Z07 sway bar and other mods that are onto the Z07.
most of the Z07 came also with track options that were used in the corvette challenge:
- shorter steering wheel ratio.
- Dual cooling (oil + trans).
- 3.07 for auto
- FX3 with bilstein shocks
- J55 + brembos
- stiffer springs
Put some good fresh goodyear F1 or michelin pilot sport and you will be amazed of the difference with a Z51.
About the same on autocross but as soon as you hit a fast track, the Z07 will outperform any Z51, any year, hands down.
Z07 compared with Z51 is about the same as comparing Z51 with stock.
Z51 is fine for road trips only.
Z07 all the way for track use. the FX3 are being efficient ones associated with
the big Z07 sway bar and other mods that are onto the Z07.
most of the Z07 came also with track options that were used in the corvette challenge:
- shorter steering wheel ratio.
- Dual cooling (oil + trans).
- 3.07 for auto
- FX3 with bilstein shocks
- J55 + brembos
- stiffer springs
Put some good fresh goodyear F1 or michelin pilot sport and you will be amazed of the difference with a Z51.
About the same on autocross but as soon as you hit a fast track, the Z07 will outperform any Z51, any year, hands down.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,564
Likes: 109
From: Austin Texas
No, early '89s with ZF6 transmissions came with 3.54:1 rear end ratio gears. About mid-way through production in '89 the rear end ratio was changed to 3.33:1 on all ZF6 equipped cars. This change was brought about for better street drivability and improved fuel economy.
The performance axle option was G92 and is a 3:45 gear ratio. http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...91/91prod.html
You'll find that this is the case all the way to the end of the C4's production run. The ONLY axle ration on Z07's was the G92 option...
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
From: Rindge NH
Originally Posted by TheCorvetteKid View Post
No, early '89s with ZF6 transmissions came with 3.54:1 rear end ratio gears. About mid-way through production in '89 the rear end ratio was changed to 3.33:1 on all ZF6 equipped cars. This change was brought about for better street drivability and improved fuel economy.
No, early '89s with ZF6 transmissions came with 3.54:1 rear end ratio gears. About mid-way through production in '89 the rear end ratio was changed to 3.33:1 on all ZF6 equipped cars. This change was brought about for better street drivability and improved fuel economy.
Not true...
The performance axle option was G92 and is a 3:45 gear ratio. http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...91/91prod.html
You'll find that this is the case all the way to the end of the C4's production run. The ONLY axle ration on Z07's was the G92 option...
The performance axle option was G92 and is a 3:45 gear ratio. http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...91/91prod.html
You'll find that this is the case all the way to the end of the C4's production run. The ONLY axle ration on Z07's was the G92 option...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 15
From: Montreal Quebec
GET A 92 TO 95 ***Z 07*** LT 1 WITH A 6 SPEED 
THEY CAME EQUIPPED WITH A FACTORY 3.45 RATIO, (84 TO 88 HAVE 3.07 WITH MANUAL 4+3 ) J55 13 ÌNCH'S HEAVY DUTY BRAKE PACKAGE WILL BE A +++ AND HEAVY DUTY SPRINGS, SHOCKS, STABILIZERS + BUSHINGS PACKAGE FROM THE FACTORY PLUS A LOT OF IMPROVEMENTS OVER THE YEARS INCLUDING DIGITALS READOUT FOR OIL AND WATER TEMPS ON THE DASH THAT YOU WILL NOT HAVE ON 90-91' 
THAT WILL GET YOU IN THE TOP OF THE CLASS GOOD LUCK ON YOUR SEARCH FOR A Z 07 AS THEY ARE A RARE FOUND IN GOOD CONDITION WITH LOW MILLEAGE BUT A WAY BETTER DEAL THAN A 96 Z 51 GRAND SPORT 
AND DONT FORGET TO PUSH THAT *ASR OFF* BUTTON AFTER YOU START IT!!!
Last edited by LT4 F45; Jun 29, 2009 at 03:46 AM.