Calderone

Hi i will upgrade from stock tpi,128 heads and zz4 camshaft, 1.5 rockers to a SuperRam,AFR195heads and Lingenfelter 219 camshaft and 1.6 -
Guys,i want to make things right so i have 2 questions :

What's the correct pushrod length ?
Should i upgrade / replace lifters ? i have my lifters for a year and a half...should i use some special lifters ???
Thanks !

STL94LT1

With those changes you need to measure to get the correct pushrod length.

Calderone

Yes,i found this :

Mockup Rocker arm
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-66789/

Pushrod Length checker :
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-9001/

i have no idea how to use it and how to measure !

Weav's Vet

[quote=Calderone;i have no idea how to use it and how to measure ![/quote]

Lloyd Elliott sent me this

PR length is something that you need to check to get the EXACT length. Use an adjustable PR checker and start at 7.100" and adjust the length until you get the wear pattern most centered in the valve. Go .050" shorter and watch the wear pattern move. If it gets worse, go .050 longer. It could be anywhere from 7.00 to 7.250 depending on everything done but a 7.100" (Trik Flow 21407100) is what I suggest for people that do not know how (or do not wanna take the time) to do this.

The following is a method of verifying proper valve train geometry. After you have estimated the required pushrod length using a Pushrod Length Checker, use this method to verify that the valve train geometry is correct (using the rockers you are using in your engine):



1
The first step is to install a solid lifter and an adjustable pushrod. Mark the tip of the valve with a marker



2
Install your rocker arm and set it up with zero lash.



3
Rotate the crankshaft clockwise several times. Remove the rocker arm. The contact pattern of the rocker tip will be where the marker has been wiped away from the valve tip. The pattern should be centered on the valve tip, and as narrow as possible. If it is not, experiment with varying the pushrod length to yield the best pattern.



4
Pushrod Too Long: Notice how the pattern is wide, and shifted to the exhaust side of the valve tip.



5
Pushrod Too Short: Notice how the pattern is wide, and shifted to the intake side of the valve tip.



6
Pushrod Length Correct: Notice how the pattern is narrow and is centered on the valve tip.



Lloyd Elliott
972-617-5671
Elliottsportworks.com

Calderone

Weav thanks ...can you please upload the pics ?
Thanks

Calderone

Kudos to Weav's vet for sharing this useful information
Im sure LOTS of engines are assembled without checking geometry (by ignorance !!!).-


PR length is something that you need to check to get the EXACT length. Use an adjustable PR checker and start at 7.100" and adjust the length until you get the wear pattern most centered in the valve. Go .050" shorter and watch the wear pattern move. If it gets worse, go .050 longer. It could be anywhere from 7.00 to 7.250 depending on everything done but a 7.100" (Trik Flow 21407100) is what I suggest for people that do not know how (or do not wanna take the time) to do this.

The following is a method of verifying proper valve train geometry. After you have estimated the required pushrod length using a Pushrod Length Checker, use this method to verify that the valve train geometry is correct (using the rockers you are using in your engine):




1
The first step is to install a solid lifter and an adjustable pushrod. Mark the tip of the valve with a marker




2
Install your rocker arm and set it up with zero lash.




3
Rotate the crankshaft clockwise several times. Remove the rocker arm. The contact pattern of the rocker tip will be where the marker has been wiped away from the valve tip. The pattern should be centered on the valve tip, and as narrow as possible. If it is not, experiment with varying the pushrod length to yield the best pattern.



4
Pushrod Too Long: Notice how the pattern is wide, and shifted to the exhaust side of the valve tip.




5
Pushrod Too Short: Notice how the pattern is wide, and shifted to the intake side of the valve tip.



6
Pushrod Length Correct: Notice how the pattern is narrow and is centered on the valve tip.


Lloyd Elliott
972-617-5671
Elliottsportworks.com



what catches my attention is that we have to install a solid lifter ...

cumbercr

You might be lucky. When I installed the 195s, the pushrod length was fine. Lifters should be good, just check for wear.

Calderone

Yes,i want to make sure 100% i'd better measure it
i want it to be just perfect

jimg's'93

I'd say this is because turning the engine over by hand wouldn't keep proper pressure in a hydraulic lifter?

Calderone

Yes and i guess that will mimic the proper load.-
damn,i will have to buy a solid lifter..i guess they are wider than rollers if i recall correct

85vet

Calderone,
There is another item you should check when you install the 219 cam. Check to see if 4 degrees advance is already cut into the cam. If it is you want to install the cam at 0 degrees.
Way back when i had the 219, mine was installed at 4 degrees advanced like the cam wants to run, but there was 4 degrees already in the cam and I ended up with 8 degrees advanced and the car never made the power everyone talked about. We discovered this when we upgraded to the 383.
I am not a mechanic so if my wording is incorrect anyone that understands what I am trying to say please feel free to expand on this subject.

Way back when I had the 219 and the superram i was accused of sandbagging when drag racing because the car would not run the et expected from the combo.

MK 82

You don't need a solid lifter. Use a test spring. I prefer them because it allows you to use the same lifters. That way you don't have to worry that the solid lifter is longer or shorter.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Calderone

Those springs goes in the heads ???? i mean replacing the original springs for test ...or goes into the lifter holes ?

MK 82

Use them in place of the valve springs. This keeps the lifter from collapsing.

Calderone

Good tip ! Now i have some questions :
What's the ET expected for that combo ? I Would like to know

Ok here technical stuff :

"Check to see if 4 degrees advance is already cut into the cam. If it is you want to install the cam at 0 degrees.
Way back when i had the 219, mine was installed at 4 degrees advanced like the cam wants to run, but there was 4 degrees already in the cam and I ended up with 8 degrees advanced and the car never made the power everyone talked about"

Does this happen with the 219 cam only ? How can avoid that mistake ?
thanks

Calderone

i'd rather use the solid lifter route,i won't be dissasembling those AFR's!

MK 82

Your choice. We are talking about swapping one spring.

jimg's'93

Heck, I didn't know these existed. Thanks MK!

Calderone

I appreciate the advice,but that means with the heads in place,that means ...compressed air ...the rope ..etc
that's why id rather upgrade to AFR's instead of changing retainers of my 128's ...all this upgrade begun because i couldn't install 1.5 roller rockers on my 128 heads because the rotators made interference.-
One day i promised,if i have to take off the heads....i will upgrade.-

ultraviolet70

Are you using new head bolts? I imagine you are going to. Then checking of the correct push rod length means you can swap to test springs on the bench just as I did and no compressed air or rope trick is necessary.