C4 manual rack and pinion
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 13
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C4 manual rack and pinion
Im trying to ditch my PS pump. Anyone here run a manual rack or know of a manual rack that will bolt up without much hassle? Anyone know how to mod the power rack for reliable manual operation. Someone here must know. Thankyou in advance for any help.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6
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From: Greenbelt Md
C4 power rack to manual
So, taken one it step further - conceptually - we also have the makings of a built it steering damper. By retaining fluid in the rack's cylinders rather than draining, and inserting an adjustable valve between the left and right rack cylinder lines you could control the left to right fluid exchange flow rate.
Last edited by Spaceshipmechanik; Oct 23, 2009 at 12:36 PM. Reason: typos
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,753
Likes: 14
From: backwoods upstate ny
if you don't need to see thru the steering wheel (gauge reference, etc), check any circle track parts vendor for 'paw saver', basically just an alum cone that keeps your thumbs/hands from getting in harms way
Last edited by redrose; Oct 23, 2009 at 03:06 PM.
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 13
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Just to be clear, I plug the fittings going to the PS cooler and from the pump and the two others. Then connect the fittings located in center and the passenger side of the rack? Keep fluid in the rack and adjust with orifice in this connection line? Seems easy enough. Will it cause any excessive wear/destruction to the internal parts? Would I need to ensure that all air is out of the rack? Anything else I should know or be aware of? This seems like a good solution and I really appreciate the help. Thankyou.
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 13
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Just got to looking at the rack. I have 16mm saginaw to -6 AN fitting to cap the large ports. The smaller ports seem to be 12mm saginaw. Anyone know where to get fittings for these. Preferably to a male AN so capping and reusing will be easy. The male fittings on the rack, center and passenger side, look like AN fitting but they are not. Anyone know what these are?
If I run an orifice in the connection between the 2 sides of the rack wont that make it more difficult to turn the wheel quickly? Not that Im cornering agressively . My car is built more for straight line action.
If I run an orifice in the connection between the 2 sides of the rack wont that make it more difficult to turn the wheel quickly? Not that Im cornering agressively . My car is built more for straight line action.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,022
Likes: 3
From: Chandler Arizona
I don't think attempting to alter the existing rack is going to yield the same results as a quick ratio manual rack (purpose built manual rack) would.
I've had manual steering in my last 4-5 cars (actually equipped with a manual rack). The power steering pump was temporarily disconnected in my c4, and it was a total BEAR to turn (most at a dead-stop type situation). i'm not a small guy and the previously owned cars weren't exactly easy to manuver either, but the c4 was a totally different story.
Unfortunately, I haven't seen an application specific manual rack for these c4's either. It would be really nice to eliminate the extra belt driven component, and eliminate the power steering (and the problems associated with them) all together.
someone "must" know what other car the c4 steering rack was shared with (which is likely). if we can figure that out, we might be able to narrow down a search for a manual rack that would also work in a c4 with little work/effort.
I've had manual steering in my last 4-5 cars (actually equipped with a manual rack). The power steering pump was temporarily disconnected in my c4, and it was a total BEAR to turn (most at a dead-stop type situation). i'm not a small guy and the previously owned cars weren't exactly easy to manuver either, but the c4 was a totally different story.
Unfortunately, I haven't seen an application specific manual rack for these c4's either. It would be really nice to eliminate the extra belt driven component, and eliminate the power steering (and the problems associated with them) all together.
someone "must" know what other car the c4 steering rack was shared with (which is likely). if we can figure that out, we might be able to narrow down a search for a manual rack that would also work in a c4 with little work/effort.
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Ive had a couple cars with manual steering, mostly porsches and mustangs and they dont seem that much easier to turn than my vette. Of course Ive only maneuvered the vette around the shop as my fuel system isnt yet installed. I think itll work as far as effort goes.
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Le Mans Master
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From: Australia
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-670510/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-670440/
Last edited by rodj; Nov 6, 2009 at 07:18 AM.
Race Director
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From: moraga ca
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 69
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From: Houston TX
Here's my experience:
I've converted several Auto R&P steering racks to manual... but all in Miatas.
The looped lines and caps (as mentioned above) will work ... theres no wear and tear to internals... it just works.
I always disassembled the rack though, and removed the seals from the internal piston... this eliminated the need to loop any lines... a little grease, and no fluid inside... just cap off all fittings (I just used a welder and sealed them off as I had no intention of reverting to auto in the race cars.)
Auto racks tend to be a quicker ratio... in our case, a converted auto rack was preferable to the stock manual racks for that reason.
But as stated earlier... it'll be a bear to turn when stopped, or at very low speeds... it was bad enough in a 2000# Miata with 205mm tires!
I've converted several Auto R&P steering racks to manual... but all in Miatas.
The looped lines and caps (as mentioned above) will work ... theres no wear and tear to internals... it just works.
I always disassembled the rack though, and removed the seals from the internal piston... this eliminated the need to loop any lines... a little grease, and no fluid inside... just cap off all fittings (I just used a welder and sealed them off as I had no intention of reverting to auto in the race cars.)
Auto racks tend to be a quicker ratio... in our case, a converted auto rack was preferable to the stock manual racks for that reason.
But as stated earlier... it'll be a bear to turn when stopped, or at very low speeds... it was bad enough in a 2000# Miata with 205mm tires!
Tech Contributor
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Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2006
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From: St. Louis Missouri
I emailed them and said they could make me one if I give them the dimensions asked for on a custom rack sheet. There was no price included.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,238
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From: College Station TX
I'd love to get rid of my power steering pump and associated plumbing, but with big front tires (315 and up) along with a lot of caster, I'm not sure I could turn it with a reasonably quick ratio. I really like my current rack ratio, as I can do AX and track days with very little hand over hand.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,022
Likes: 3
From: Chandler Arizona
I'd love to get rid of my power steering pump and associated plumbing, but with big front tires (315 and up) along with a lot of caster, I'm not sure I could turn it with a reasonably quick ratio. I really like my current rack ratio, as I can do AX and track days with very little hand over hand.
It would definitely be nice to ditch the power-steering rack though (and plumbing).