C4 Tech/Performance L98 Corvette and LT1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine

Got a Scanner - Need Some Help

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Old Nov 14, 2009 | 08:24 AM
  #21  
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Default Got a Scanner - Need Some Help

Hi
I got an Autoxray as well and mine does not work with the 85 ecm.
Its a lot of meaningless numbers displayed as in you listing. which made me not trust the numbers. The scanner works fine with the ...165 ecm from 86 and up.
I got a free sw for the laptop I have and its called Winaldl.Googgle that and you can download it and see the differences.
You must then have a cable which is shown how to make or where to buy.The Winaldl values made sence and I have used it for tuing and it made sence.
see that:

-AIR motor could be a little less counts but is not wrong
-the coolant temp is low
-Engine rpm is correct as the scanner increases the rpm to 1000rpm
-EGR data I believe is not displayed in the datastream
-TPS is OK
-Integrator is low should be 128
-BLM is far out of capture area and is supposed tp be around 128 ideally but is within capture range from 110 till about 155 (cannot remember exactly)But with a figuere of 179 that makes no sence and show that the engine extremely lean.
-With a cooling temp of 167.9 degr. it makes no sence that the airtemp or manifold temp should be 203 degrees
-Oxygen sensor shall cycle or alternate around 450 mV from just some mV till up to the value you have it might be that the scaner sampled the high value and that it works all right
-Knock sensor of 112 knocks sounds bad and I believe that it is not true if the engine ignition is adjusted to 6degrees BTP
-MAF is if I remember correctly within normal and so is injector pulse
- Rich/lean flag is wrong as the BLM show extremely lean engine.


You can see on the instrument panel if the engine is lean or rich.
If you shortcircuit pin A and B in the aldl connector the service engine soon light will start blinking. If the dutycycle on/ off is equal length it is quite normal. if the on period is longer than the off period the engine is (here you should read in the manual to see what is correct because I don't remmber exactly) but think it is rich.

Good luck

Originally Posted by cumbercr
I reran the scan with the engine at operating temperature and captured the data.

Idle Air Mtr Pos: 47 Steps
Coolant Temp: 167.9 deg F
Vehicle Speed: 0 MPH
EGR Duty Cycle: 0.0%
Engine RPM: 1000
Throttle Sensor: 0.56 Volts
Integrator: 124
Oxygen Sensor: 836 mVolts
Manifold Air Temp: 203.0 Deg F
Knock Sensor: 112
Block Learn: 179
O2 Cross Counts: 0
Mass Air Flow: 8 Gr/Sec
Injector Pulse: 1.3 mS
Learn Control: Enabled
Rich/Lean Flag: Rich
Loop Status: Open
Park/Neutral: Detected
Power Steering PSI High: No
EGR: Off
Fan #1: Off
A/C: Requested
Prom ID: 7805

I noted a few things.

Manifold Air Temp never changed. It read 203.0 at startup with engine cold. Scanner indicated A/C was requested. The A/C was off. Computer never went to closed loop. Chip is programmed for 800 RPM idle target. Actual idle was 1000. Idle increased when scanner was in scan mode.
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Old Nov 14, 2009 | 10:10 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by jan-erik
Hi
I got an Autoxray as well and mine does not work with the 85 ecm.
Its a lot of meaningless numbers displayed as in you listing. which made me not trust the numbers. The scanner works fine with the ...165 ecm from 86 and up.
I got a free sw for the laptop I have and its called Winaldl.Googgle that and you can download it and see the differences.
You must then have a cable which is shown how to make or where to buy.The Winaldl values made sence and I have used it for tuing and it made sence.
see that:

-AIR motor could be a little less counts but is not wrong
-the coolant temp is low
-Engine rpm is correct as the scanner increases the rpm to 1000rpm
-EGR data I believe is not displayed in the datastream
-TPS is OK
-Integrator is low should be 128
-BLM is far out of capture area and is supposed tp be around 128 ideally but is within capture range from 110 till about 155 (cannot remember exactly)But with a figuere of 179 that makes no sence and show that the engine extremely lean.
-With a cooling temp of 167.9 degr. it makes no sence that the airtemp or manifold temp should be 203 degrees
-Oxygen sensor shall cycle or alternate around 450 mV from just some mV till up to the value you have it might be that the scaner sampled the high value and that it works all right
-Knock sensor of 112 knocks sounds bad and I believe that it is not true if the engine ignition is adjusted to 6degrees BTP
-MAF is if I remember correctly within normal and so is injector pulse
- Rich/lean flag is wrong as the BLM show extremely lean engine.


You can see on the instrument panel if the engine is lean or rich.
If you shortcircuit pin A and B in the aldl connector the service engine soon light will start blinking. If the dutycycle on/ off is equal length it is quite normal. if the on period is longer than the off period the engine is (here you should read in the manual to see what is correct because I don't remmber exactly) but think it is rich.

Good luck
Thank you very much. As I learn more about what each value means, I also am doubting the data. The engine runs too well to be as lean as the BLM numbers indicate. I'm now checking out the WinALDL software. Thanks again.
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Old Nov 14, 2009 | 12:44 PM
  #23  
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Just remember that the Int in open loop isn't used for anything and should be pegged at Normal or 128. Nor is Long Term Fuel Trim, though it's last reading during Closed Loop is stored and used for fuel delivery until Closed Loop operation returns (and it's not out of capture range). Follow mseven's advice - you either have junk in the data stream or something is mucked up that needs to be corrected before you burn a valve or hole a piston - and now that you've told us it has headers, make sure they're sealed because data like this is often because there's a big exhaust leak sucking air pass the O2. Also, with a 160 thermostat, you may need to modify Targeted Idle vs CTS signal - you might have your tuner tell you exactly what's been modified so you can understand why it's doing what it's doing. Finally, to troubleshoot the MAT, buy a new one and plug it into the harness with the engine cold. If it doesn't come in at ambient, it's more than likely a bad ECM. That's becase a Thermistor, like the CTS and MAT, have decreasing resistance as they get hot; ie, more of the juice flows to ground. If the signal wire had more resistance, the temperature would be lower. If it had a path to ground it would be pegged at 300 - the reading, cold, pretty much rules out the wiring leaving only the Sensor or the ECM.

Last edited by SunCr; Nov 14, 2009 at 12:49 PM.
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Old Nov 14, 2009 | 01:35 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by SunCr
Just remember that the Int in open loop isn't used for anything and should be pegged at Normal or 128. Nor is Long Term Fuel Trim, though it's last reading during Closed Loop is stored and used for fuel delivery until Closed Loop operation returns (and it's not out of capture range). Follow mseven's advice - you either have junk in the data stream or something is mucked up that needs to be corrected before you burn a valve or hole a piston - and now that you've told us it has headers, make sure they're sealed because data like this is often because there's a big exhaust leak sucking air pass the O2. Also, with a 160 thermostat, you may need to modify Targeted Idle vs CTS signal - you might have your tuner tell you exactly what's been modified so you can understand why it's doing what it's doing. Finally, to troubleshoot the MAT, buy a new one and plug it into the harness with the engine cold. If it doesn't come in at ambient, it's more than likely a bad ECM. That's becase a Thermistor, like the CTS and MAT, have decreasing resistance as they get hot; ie, more of the juice flows to ground. If the signal wire had more resistance, the temperature would be lower. If it had a path to ground it would be pegged at 300 - the reading, cold, pretty much rules out the wiring leaving only the Sensor or the ECM.
Thanks. This is also good advice. I am now certain the scanner is giving erroneous data. I did a scan while driving and in open loop. The block learn was counting from 0 to over 200 and then starting over. That makes no sense. The Int was also fluctuating from rich to lean way too much. Other readings were suspect as well.

I've downloaded the WinALDL software which is compatible with my ECM and I ordered a cable for my laptop. I should be able to do some dynamic data logging in a few days. I got a great book on Corvette fuel injection so I'm getting just smart enough to be dangerous. I understand now why a BLM reading of 179 is dangerously lean. That would indicate some serious long term fuel trim changes are being made.

Thanks guys!

I replaced the TPS this morning. I was pretty certain it was getting tired. The idle is improved and shifts are smoother.
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Old Nov 14, 2009 | 02:15 PM
  #25  
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The block learn was counting from 0 to over 200 and then starting over.

Would make me think it was the O2 counts just under the wrong label on the scanner... It goes 0-255 and starts over..

I still do not understand how the TPS can effect shifting. Someone needs to explain this to me with a 700R4. There are only 6 connections between anything else and the trans.. Crank to converter, TC Lockup wiring, shift cable, TV cable and speed sensor for the ECM and dash.. I thought shifting was controlled by the TV cable and governor..
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Old Nov 15, 2009 | 11:17 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by ddahlgren
The block learn was counting from 0 to over 200 and then starting over.

Would make me think it was the O2 counts just under the wrong label on the scanner... It goes 0-255 and starts over..

I still do not understand how the TPS can effect shifting. Someone needs to explain this to me with a 700R4. There are only 6 connections between anything else and the trans.. Crank to converter, TC Lockup wiring, shift cable, TV cable and speed sensor for the ECM and dash.. I thought shifting was controlled by the TV cable and governor..
The smoother shifts are happening during downshift and pimarily from 2nd to 1st. I think its due to the fact that rpms were higher than they should have been for the vehicle speed.
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Old Nov 15, 2009 | 02:03 PM
  #27  
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Ok so you are saying the TPS is causing the IAC to run the engine too fast for the appropriate ground speed.. I can buy that causing a hasrsh shift thanks for the thought on how one might affect the other.. I can see how this might happen on a downshift though not an upshift or kick down while running WOT.. On a decell yes.
Thanks Dave
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Old Nov 18, 2009 | 09:02 PM
  #28  
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Today I got an ALDL cable for my laptop to go with the free WinALDL data logger software. It verifies that the AutoXray scanner I was using was not giving valid data. The data points I was most interested in were INT, BLM and IAC. Both INT and BLM are tracking within 10% of 128 which from what I understand is right where they should be.

I was able to adjust the IAC although I'm not sure what the counts should be. I set it at 30 counts. Idle is very close to the target idle of 800 RPM. So I guess that's good.

For anyone looking for a scanner capability for the 85 ECM, this is a pretty good deal. I may look into more sophisticated software now that I know this works.
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Old Nov 20, 2009 | 01:15 PM
  #29  
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30cts @800rpm sounds fine. 10% of 128 would mean that a plus 10% would yeild 140 blm (approx.) and minus 10% would put it at a 115 (approx.). Providing is stayed there (with no peaks) it still needs work. Your tuner shoiuld be able to get it much closer than that.
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Old Nov 21, 2009 | 08:20 AM
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Is it better to set the bin were the car does not go into closed loop then adjust the BLM's to 128 or adjust them in closed loop to 128?
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Old Nov 21, 2009 | 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cshuman
Is it better to set the bin were the car does not go into closed loop then adjust the BLM's to 128 or adjust them in closed loop to 128?
To me that depends on how big the cam and set-up. I prefer if at all possible to tune in c.l. to take advantage of other tables in the bin (it takes time and patience to attain a good c.l. tune). Tuning to 128 blm in closed loop should represent 14.7:1. and should be verified with a AFR meter. A real big cam may not ever produce a decent idle/off idle due to the overlap. Tuning in open loop and using a AFR Meter would overcome those issues and does work well. You would be tuning to maintain a steady or fixed AFR across the rpm/load range. (BLM/INT would stay locked out at 128 and would no longer play a role in fueling)
If using a 727/730 ecm you can tune open loop at idle/off idle and have it enter closed loop at any rpm above. The V4 AUJP bin (727/730) for example has tables to allow this type of tuning.

Last edited by mseven; Nov 21, 2009 at 03:52 PM.
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