ANGRY!!! Broken Weld on Nut inside Frame, Rivet Nut a Solution?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 525
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From: San Antonio TX
ANGRY!!! Broken Weld on Nut inside Frame, Rivet Nut a Solution?
I was replacing the brake booster on my 91. So I had to move the support brace that attaches the lower frame to the firewall where the hood latch is located. Well, when trying to unbolt the brace and after a few hard turns of the bolts, the nuts that are welded inside the frame broke loose on the 2 top bolts. Son Of a B!+C#!!!!!! Well at least the 3rd side bolt facing the engine was fine and reusable.
But as for the 2 top bolts, even though they are loose enough to spin freely, they can not be removed because the nuts inside the frame are almost frozen onto the bolts. And I can not reach inside the frame with vise-grips or pliers to grip these nuts.
Anyway, I’m planning on cutting off the bolt heads and using something I found on the net called a rivet nut (also called a nutsert or nut rivet).
My questions are:
Are rivet nuts strong enough to support this brace?
I am sure this has happened to others, what was your solution?
Since the 2 top bolts are still holding the arm/brace loosely and the 3rd side bolt/nut is fine, would leaving the 2 top bolts on but loose be an option?
I’m all ears...
Thanks
But as for the 2 top bolts, even though they are loose enough to spin freely, they can not be removed because the nuts inside the frame are almost frozen onto the bolts. And I can not reach inside the frame with vise-grips or pliers to grip these nuts.
Anyway, I’m planning on cutting off the bolt heads and using something I found on the net called a rivet nut (also called a nutsert or nut rivet).
My questions are:
Are rivet nuts strong enough to support this brace?
I am sure this has happened to others, what was your solution?
Since the 2 top bolts are still holding the arm/brace loosely and the 3rd side bolt/nut is fine, would leaving the 2 top bolts on but loose be an option?
I’m all ears...
Thanks
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 525
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From: San Antonio TX
Some Pics
This is the support arm or brace I am talking about. It is in front of the brake booster. The tire well is removed.
Here are the 2 top bolts. They spin freely but can not be removed unless I chop off their heads.
Only a small inspection hole here. No room for pliers or vise –grips.
Nevermind the time stamp in these pics. The time is off on my camera.
Here are the 2 top bolts. They spin freely but can not be removed unless I chop off their heads.
Only a small inspection hole here. No room for pliers or vise –grips.
Nevermind the time stamp in these pics. The time is off on my camera.
Team Owner
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Pro
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: Homestead Florida
And what part of that is helpful to him?
I had the same thing happen to me but in a different spot. I was able to cut out a small square around the original hole, welded a nut to the back and then welded the square back in. I then grinded down the welds and spray painted it black and you really would never know it had happened. Even if you don't have a welder, I imagine you could cut it out and have someone weld it back on the cheap.
There is a solution to this problem that doesn't require welding, but you have to have access to the inside of the frame. I can't remember what it is but I'm sure someone here will have the solution.
Good luck
I had the same thing happen to me but in a different spot. I was able to cut out a small square around the original hole, welded a nut to the back and then welded the square back in. I then grinded down the welds and spray painted it black and you really would never know it had happened. Even if you don't have a welder, I imagine you could cut it out and have someone weld it back on the cheap.
There is a solution to this problem that doesn't require welding, but you have to have access to the inside of the frame. I can't remember what it is but I'm sure someone here will have the solution.
Good luck
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,700
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From: moraga ca
I would think the crud would hold the brace in place. 
Sorry, just kidding. Open up the hole on the side of the frame enough to get an open end wrench in there and hopefully you will able to hold the nut and loosen the bolt. Otherwise cut the head off and use a bolt from the outside in with a nut taped to a box end wrench inside the hole.
Sorry, just kidding. Open up the hole on the side of the frame enough to get an open end wrench in there and hopefully you will able to hold the nut and loosen the bolt. Otherwise cut the head off and use a bolt from the outside in with a nut taped to a box end wrench inside the hole.
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Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 525
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From: San Antonio TX
I would think the crud would hold the brace in place. Sorry, just kidding. Open up the hole on the side of the frame enough to get an open end wrench in there and hopefully you will able to hold the nut and loosen the bolt. Otherwise cut the head off and use a bolt from the outside in with a nut taped to a box end wrench inside the hole.
Sorry, just kidding. Open up the hole on the side of the frame enough to get an open end wrench in there and hopefully you will able to hold the nut and loosen the bolt. Otherwise cut the head off and use a bolt from the outside in with a nut taped to a box end wrench inside the hole.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2005
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From: San Antonio TX
Thanks for all the responses. Much appreciated. Most of the solutions sound like good possibilities, but involve cutting into the frame. Wouldn’t I be weakening the frame by cutting into it?
How about these rivet nuts or nutcerts? Does anyone have anything to say about the rivet nuts?
How about these rivet nuts or nutcerts? Does anyone have anything to say about the rivet nuts?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,141
Likes: 2
From: Pittsburgh Pa
i think in terms of a collision you would slightly take away from the frames integrity but unless you are off roading it, which there seems to be plenty of sings of that, j/k it should be fine.. i had to do something similar to a friends neon and i welded the nut back to the frame. still running and driving fine.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,403
Likes: 3
From: Columbia Maryland
Try removing the other 2 bolts after soaking with a rust penetrant and you should be able to wiggle the bracket away from the top mount area even if just slightly. At this point try wedging a Johnson bar between the frame and the bottom of the bracket as close to the remaining bolt as possible, slide it under the bracket to get a tight fit, use a air impact (1/2") on the nut and as you apply pressure on the Johnson Bar, zap the chit out of the remaining bolt with the inpact counterclock wise, the pressure applied may stall the nut and allow the bolt to walk out, if you have enough room to get a propane torch on the nut through the oval hole, this will help expand it and may be enough to break it loose.
Heat is sometimes one of the best tools you can buy in a situation like this, they call it the "Blue Tip Wrench"
Keep a fire extinguisher close by if you do heat it up....
The object here is to hold a lot of pressure on the bottom of the bracket so the nut will stall and the bolt may walk out, the impact will spin it so quickly, sometimes this will shock the net loose.
I'd give it a shot before cutting into your frame, if you don't have a welder handy, you could be up chits creek if you hack on the frame...
Good luck
Heat is sometimes one of the best tools you can buy in a situation like this, they call it the "Blue Tip Wrench"
Keep a fire extinguisher close by if you do heat it up....
The object here is to hold a lot of pressure on the bottom of the bracket so the nut will stall and the bolt may walk out, the impact will spin it so quickly, sometimes this will shock the net loose.
I'd give it a shot before cutting into your frame, if you don't have a welder handy, you could be up chits creek if you hack on the frame...
Good luck
Last edited by ZRWHAT; Dec 4, 2009 at 06:14 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,700
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From: moraga ca
Thanks for all the responses. Much appreciated. Most of the solutions sound like good possibilities, but involve cutting into the frame. Wouldn’t I be weakening the frame by cutting into it?
How about these rivet nuts or nutcerts? Does anyone have anything to say about the rivet nuts?
How about these rivet nuts or nutcerts? Does anyone have anything to say about the rivet nuts?
Pro
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 744
Likes: 13
From: Lenoir City TN
I had the same thing happen to me, but on the other side. I cut the head off the bolts and like you, are still looking for a simple solution. I looked at a rivet nut web site, as you mentioned, and they look promising. The holes in the frame were the top bolts go into appear to be octagon in shape, which would appear to me could have been rivet nuts from the factory. I, like you, could not find any holes adjacent to the bolt holes were they could have welded a nut on the back side of the hole to start with. I'm going to have the top end of my engine off soon and will look further into the rivet nut idea.
Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info.
Le Mans Master
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From: levittown pa. usa Even a bad day with my `Vette, is better than a good day at work
St. Jude Donor '10
I just noticed that Jegs has a rivet nut tool & retainer kit, part #555-80481 on their site for $6.99 (nuts & bolts not included).
Last edited by kenv; Dec 4, 2009 at 08:19 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,286
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From: Palm Beach
And what part of that was helpful to him?
torchred96 - I got this one for ya. I am deeply ashamed for implying that his engine was incredibly dirty. I will attempt to control myself in the future.
torchred96 - I got this one for ya. I am deeply ashamed for implying that his engine was incredibly dirty. I will attempt to control myself in the future.
Last edited by MK 82; Dec 4, 2009 at 08:47 PM.