Rocker Arm: Full Roller VS Roller Tip
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,972
Likes: 243
Rocker Arm: Full Roller VS Roller Tip
In regards to 94 LT1
I want to go to a 1.6 rocker with some better springs on my for now stock cam. Someday I plan on a hotcam but I just don't know when that will be yet.
I know that the full roller is the better choice over the roller tip but does the additional cost really outweigh the benefits? I know a roller tip will have a bit more friction than a full roller and hence may have slightly higher oil temps and make a bit less power, but are there any actual numbers out there to back it?
I'm looking at the comp magnum rockers. It is a self aligning 1.6 roller tip rocker for under $200/set which seems pretty reasonable. My goal is to get a little more rev capability out of an otherwise mostly stock LT1 - I'd like to be able to meaningfully rev to 6k. I am leaning towards the magnum 1.6 roller tip right now.
I can really use some suggestions/advice on reasonably priced springs that would work well with these rockers. I've used shims on OHC motors in the past to beef up the stock springs a bit but that doesn't seem to be an option on the LT1 stock springs as I think they will be nearly maxed out with a 1.6 rocker.
I want to go to a 1.6 rocker with some better springs on my for now stock cam. Someday I plan on a hotcam but I just don't know when that will be yet.
I know that the full roller is the better choice over the roller tip but does the additional cost really outweigh the benefits? I know a roller tip will have a bit more friction than a full roller and hence may have slightly higher oil temps and make a bit less power, but are there any actual numbers out there to back it?
I'm looking at the comp magnum rockers. It is a self aligning 1.6 roller tip rocker for under $200/set which seems pretty reasonable. My goal is to get a little more rev capability out of an otherwise mostly stock LT1 - I'd like to be able to meaningfully rev to 6k. I am leaning towards the magnum 1.6 roller tip right now.
I can really use some suggestions/advice on reasonably priced springs that would work well with these rockers. I've used shims on OHC motors in the past to beef up the stock springs a bit but that doesn't seem to be an option on the LT1 stock springs as I think they will be nearly maxed out with a 1.6 rocker.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 721
Likes: 1
From: Charlotte NC, behind someone going 10 under the speed limit
IMO the rpm range where you're going to see gains is also where the reduced friction benefit of the full rollers would be as well, so I wouldn't waste the money on roller tips. Buy the lightest full rollers you can, and add guideplates and hardened pushrods, it's more stabile than SA rockers. Or just buy the HOTCAM kit, the LT1 has a lame/tame cam in relation to what the intake can support. Springs and valve stem seals may not be a bad idea either depending on miles(+/-100K).
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,642
Likes: 5
From: One day you're a Comet...the next day you're dust... Arkansas
I put Scorpion 1.6 full RR's in my 1989. They were under $250. If you are going to the trouble put in the full RR's and new springs. I put the 101# GMPP LT4 springs in mine. I think they were $40 for the set.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
Likes: 27
From: Kempner Texas
In regards to 94 LT1
I know that the full roller is the better choice over the roller tip but does the additional cost really outweigh the benefits?
I'm looking at the comp magnum rockers. It is a self aligning 1.6 roller tip rocker for under $200/set which seems pretty reasonable. My goal is to get a little more rev capability out of an otherwise mostly stock LT1 - I'd like to be able to meaningfully rev to 6k. I am leaning towards the magnum 1.6 roller tip right now.
I can really use some suggestions/advice on reasonably priced springs that would work well with these rockers. I've used shims on OHC motors in the past to beef up the stock springs a bit but that doesn't seem to be an option on the LT1 stock springs as I think they will be nearly maxed out with a 1.6 rocker.
I know that the full roller is the better choice over the roller tip but does the additional cost really outweigh the benefits?
I'm looking at the comp magnum rockers. It is a self aligning 1.6 roller tip rocker for under $200/set which seems pretty reasonable. My goal is to get a little more rev capability out of an otherwise mostly stock LT1 - I'd like to be able to meaningfully rev to 6k. I am leaning towards the magnum 1.6 roller tip right now.
I can really use some suggestions/advice on reasonably priced springs that would work well with these rockers. I've used shims on OHC motors in the past to beef up the stock springs a bit but that doesn't seem to be an option on the LT1 stock springs as I think they will be nearly maxed out with a 1.6 rocker.
Scorpion FULL roller rockers can be bought for $220. That's what I paid for the two sets I bought. FlatLanderRacing.com Compare the cost between the two types of rockers - half-roller Vs Full Roller - and you'll find the difference in cost is minimal.
You choose springs based on the camshaft you're running, not the rocker arms. So, first choose the cam, then select the recommended valve springs to run with that cam. Each cam will come with a recommended spring, so that removes the guess-work.
As an often repeated 'rule-of-thumb', never cheap-out on valve train parts. Buy the best parts you can afford and if your budget is limited, hold off buying until you can afford the best parts.
Jake
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,482
Likes: 196
From: folsom california
I don't know if they work on an LT1 head and valve combo, but about the only real bargain I found at the GM dealer was a set of new LT4 valve springs, good to 0.525". I paid $44.00 at the dealer; see them for less mail order.
The main benefit of a roller tip is to eliminate the side load on the valve stem created by the "dragging" motion of a stock rocker across the valve stem tip as the rocker cycles from no lift (valve closed) to max lift (valve all the way open), eliminating a source of valve guide wear.
I would surmise that the amount of friction eliminated by a roller tip is miniscule compared to the remaining friction created by the rocker arm working against the rocker arm ball.
The main benefit of a roller tip is to eliminate the side load on the valve stem created by the "dragging" motion of a stock rocker across the valve stem tip as the rocker cycles from no lift (valve closed) to max lift (valve all the way open), eliminating a source of valve guide wear.
I would surmise that the amount of friction eliminated by a roller tip is miniscule compared to the remaining friction created by the rocker arm working against the rocker arm ball.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Always figured if the seat pressure was going to be over 100-110 lbs time for a full roller. Have used roller tips in many cars with no problems though. If you are just that strapped its a step up from stock.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,108
Likes: 126
From: S.L.C. UT
Full roller rockers are the way to go. The heat build up is in the fulcrum. A roller tip uses the stock ball socket set up. With full roller rockers, I have heard of 20 degree reduction in oil temps from reduced friction, with full roller rockers. But I wouldn't buy the el cheapo ones. Get a decent brand. You don't want a failure from some junk roller rocker
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