I can speak from experience, I have had a 4+3, ZF and TKO 600


I recommend the 5 speed over the ZF because;
1. ZF clutch mfgrs are limited
2. Cost of clutches & Flywheels are easily 30%-50% more than push type clutches.
3. Only one mfgr of Pressure Plates = Valeo
4. ZF hydraulics are a well know issue
5. A ZF doc repair bill STARTS at $2000 (fact)
6. Noise issue
7. Weighs 165 lbs
8. ZF is discontinued,
9. BMW fluid is stupid expensive
10. You can not use a bigger Flywheel because there is only one bell housing from GM
11. Must have the smaller Vette starter to fit the ZF's Bell housing

Pro & Con for ZF & TKO
1. TKO can be repaired in almost any state
2. TKO weighs 100 lbs
3. You can use stock 84-88 Vette clutch, FW and hydraulics
4. TKO can withstand in excess of 600 ft/lb TQ, (reported actual 1000 ft.lb)
5. Low cost Pennzoil or any Syncrhomesh Fluid
6. Tons of Flywheel diameter and Bell housing options
7. All parts can be stock parts if you want

Pro ZF = 6th gear
Con TKO 600 = no 6th gear

 

I found it on Ebay.

 

One other thing to consider is whether or not you are going to do the conversion yourself or if it will be done in a shop. Given the labor time involved, the cost of buying a used trans will be less than the labor to do the conversion.

It's easy to wind up spending 4 to 5 thousand or maybe more for the entire conversion if you don't have the tools, expertise, and a hoist to do the work. For that amount of money, it would be cheaper to sell your car and get a manual trans car.

There are a lot of really nice C4's with manual trannies out there for under $10K. Even 92 and later cars with the LT1 motor.

 

The Keisler kit cost $3500

you buy

A GM or after market Bell housing new or used = $125
Master Cylinder = $60
Clutch Slave = $50
Hydraulic Line = $75

You will be lucky to find a ZF bell housing, they are out there but pricey,

 

You all make good points......I still am happy I went with the ZF.....even the blue tags have plenty of backbone to handle my application.....

but I have experienced the issues of the hydraulics/clutches......no easy answer here if you are doing a swap....trust me......do your own homework and understand if you are converting from an auto-manual, be prepared to throw down some cash and headaches.....

 

No we never have ever. The only kit is the 4+3 to TKO500 or 600. Who is your close friend?

 

Ive got the pedals Ill give you for 50 bucks plus shipping. They are in excellent condition and I could load a picture of them if you go that route and want them they are just sitting here in my place

Mike

 

I could have sworn you did 4-5 years ago..

As for my friend, if the OP wants details he can PM me, but I will not post here to allow this thread to turn into a he said she said about the issues my friend went through

 

Then PM me his name. To make sure this is legit.

 

I have a guy who might have a set of pedals locally. If that falls through, I'll send you a PM.
Thank you

 

I called these guys and they were the least helpful and most stubborn people I have talked too,, it was their way or the highway, give me your cash and take my product or buy it some place else type of attitude,

called keisler and they could not have been more helpful...

I am NOT a Keisler fanboy, nor do I get a kick back,, but unless you HAVE TO HAVE a 6th gear, the ZF makes no sense to me after having owned all 3 trannys, the 4+3, ZF and TKO,, it's a pay me now or pay me later thing,

 

I love my TKO 5 SPD.It came with my 88 and the tranny was from Keisler

 

TKO is def the way to go. I tried the ZF and it sucks. For ALL the reasons you mentioned. Especially the noise. (had a black tag) and the goofy shifting.

A lakewood scatter shield, a TKO, and some fab and you are golden.

Hows the car?

-- Joe

 

I am leaning towards the TKO. I do believe the ZF could be done cheaper though. The one thing I am wondering is the amount of tunnel modification that would have to be done. Because my car is a automatic.

 

For both just cut a square. If you look at the links on my home page, I did both swaps. auto to manual, then to ZF6 from a 5 spd.

The ZF6 obviously is a direct swap but there is a few things to consider, like LD85 mentioned, they are noisy, the clutch options are expensive and limitted, and prone to slip because of the low-pressure design. The bell housing is magnesium, and a good clutch explosion will take your feet off.

-- Joe

 

Very minimal cutting out of the pocket for the shifting mechanisim of the 4+3 trans.

 

Is there any truth to that or am I just nuts to think that if the clutch blows up it can cut your feet off. Has this ever happened dear God Ill be selling it if thats the case. I need my fn feet man

Also I have the black tag in my 1993 and the only gear that is noisy is first after that no noise and I kind of like the gear whine its not obtrusive at all in my opinion and my clutch shifts very well and tight. If I ever need a clutch am I going to have a hard time finding a clutch to replace mine. I cant see why that would be the case. I appreciate any info on this

Mike

 

I have looked into this swap and have gathered all of the extraneous parts needed, except for the actual TKO tranny. My swap has taken awhile (started gathering parts two years ago), mainly because I have lost interest in the car, and it has mostly sat all year. I can tell u, I am already in for about $1000 (give or take a few hundred) on all the parts u are going to need from a manual tranny car, alone. As others have previously stated, unless u have a whole lot in the car u already have or it has some overwhelming personal hold on u, I would seriously consider selling it or swapping it for a manual car. Parts alone are about $4000 for a TKO swap, about $2500-2800 for a ZF. Either way, if u are not going to do the swap urself, plan on another $1300-1500 in labor. This is not for the feeble hearted, and it's going to cost either way. I also agree with LD85 that the TKO is a better way to go for the same reasons he has already stated. And as previously stated, Keisler does not have a direct hydraulic clutch swap, and recommends u use a stock bellhousing for a 4+3 car. U will need to get: peddles (make sure u get the right ones-the ones for a 90 and up car are different from 84-89), hydraulic clutch components including master cylinder and lines, drive shaft from a manual car (agan matched to the tranny u are using-4+3 for the TKO and ZF for the ZF 6 spd), support beam (cbeam), new shift plate, & bellhousing and components for it. In addition, if ur car is an auto now, it most likely has 2:59 rear gears. U'll need to seriously consider either swapping them for higher gears or swapping the entire differential to a Dana 44. Then there are the electrics. In the TKO kit by Keisler, they are covered. In the ZF swap, it's parts gathering again: computer chip for a manual, reverse lock out, back up lights, steering column, etc. Hope this helps with your decision. One of these years, I'll get mine done! Tom

 

you know what, it doesn't matter, because again there will be the he said she said. Not worth it.

 

You thought is was worth mentioning! I think you are friends or something with the Hurst guys and that why you hijacked and posted it. Again I am sure that most guys will read around your post.