Fuel injectors???
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 106
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From: yardley pa
Fuel injectors???
I think i might of figured some problems in my 86 Z51 The car starts fine in the morning no matter how cold but never starts super strong but then if i drive it and let it sit Say for 10 mins or so it does'nt want to start. Almost like its flooded it will eventually start but it takes like half dozen times or so. And there is always a large plume of white smoke when it starts. also sometimes there is a bog or like a miss at WOT and the is just no power almost every thing is new in the engine so i dont think its any thing in the engine. Does this sound like injectors or maybe a fuel regulator? Could the white smoke be the gas? The fuel pump is new too. If it is the injectors can you just replace a couple? I know how much they cost but is the labor expensive i hope this is not the problem im going broke from this dam car. Please someone say its the regulator or even a fuel filter :yesnod: But honesty would be the best. thanks all Ron
Pro
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 534
Likes: 32
From: Farmington NY
Re: Fuel injectors??? (siberianhusky911)
Rather than replace them, pull them and send them to Rich at CruizinPerformance.com (check out the site) they can clean and flow test them for about $9 each. If any of htem are bad he can replace them for a minimal fee. They are great to work with.
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 90,675
Likes: 304
From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: Fuel injectors??? (siberianhusky911)
I agree, Rich at Cruzinperformance is the best ($80/set). The only one he can't do is the 9th injector.
You will need an upper intake FelPro gasket set and pull the plenum, runners and fuel rail.
You will need an upper intake FelPro gasket set and pull the plenum, runners and fuel rail.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,620
Likes: 2
From: Hillsboro OR
Re: Fuel injectors??? (siberianhusky911)
You may have an ignition problem. Change the fuel filter. Check the fuel pressure when its cold and hot and after you shut it off hot. The pressure should stay up for at least 1/2 hour unless the injectors are leaking.
If you have leaky injectors, consider buying new ones because yours are 16 years old (if stock) and don't last forever. IMHO, paying 80 bucks for a service that doesn't replace the parts inside the injector that wear out instead of buying new ones for 200 is a waste. Be sure you get the correct size.
If you have leaky injectors, consider buying new ones because yours are 16 years old (if stock) and don't last forever. IMHO, paying 80 bucks for a service that doesn't replace the parts inside the injector that wear out instead of buying new ones for 200 is a waste. Be sure you get the correct size.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,157
Likes: 0
From: Orange County TX
Re: Fuel injectors??? (siberianhusky911)
Oil makes white smoke, fuel makes black smoke. If when you first get up in the morning and start the car and you get a puff of white smoke, this is usually valve seals. If it puts out white smoke every time you start its normally rings. As for hard starting after it warms up, there is a cold start timer that sets the time for the 9th injector this is some thing to look at. Put a pressure gauge on the fuel line and hit the key to the run position. Watch your fuel pressure, it should go up to around 40 something pounds and sit there with only about a pound drop. Watch it to see if it continues to drop if it does continue to drop then clamp the return line (rubber portion) and do it again. With the return line clamped if the pressure drops, the injector/s are leaking. Fuel cleans rings real well and can cause that puff. Bottom line, replace the injectors, go to SummitRacing and buy the Accels for about $250 for a new set. Don't waste time and money on the old ones.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 513
Likes: 30
From: Tonawanda, NY USA
Re: Fuel injectors??? (Dryseals)
Had the same problem with my '85 last summer. Turned out it was the injectors. You can buy the FMS 24lbs/hr injectors from Summit for $219 for all 8. Direct replacement, and they work great!
JK
JK
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
Likes: 33
From: The Top of Utah
Re: Fuel injectors??? (Dryseals)
Oil makes white smoke, fuel makes black smoke.
Oil makes BLUE smoke.
Fuel makes BLACK smoke.
WATER makes WHITE smoke.
Anyhow, this is all a re-hash from a week or two ago.
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 106
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From: yardley pa
Re: Fuel injectors??? (CFI-EFI)
Well it is a rehash CFI because everyone suggestions so far have not panned out. The head gasket is fine it was re-done just in case. Did the throttle body bypass just in case the throttle body was cracked. There is no crack in the intake basically my old mechanic and my new mechanic can see no way it can be water or collant. it only smokes now when it gets warmed up and it sit for 10 mins or so and the smoke smells like fuel not oil, not collant, not steam i took it to a third guy today and he said it sounds like its flooded and he said the white smoke can be caused by fuel getting into the engine same as the last guy said. He told me i dont know whos telling you fuel can only be black smoke and white must mean water that is simply not the case that might be the obvious thought but not always reality. Anyway the smoke is not what this post is mainly about its just a by product of the flooding or the hard starting Thank you Ron
[Modified by siberianhusky911, 2:00 AM 4/2/2002]
[Modified by siberianhusky911, 2:00 AM 4/2/2002]
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 153
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From: Essex Ont
Re: Fuel injectors??? (siberianhusky911)
siber,
Put a fuel pressure guage on it and see if it holds pressure when you shut the engine off. If is drops rapidly like mine used to it is probably injectors. As was said before pinch off both the feed and return line and if you still lose pressure it is for sure the injectors.
I had this same problem last year. I even went the route of "reconditioning" my old ones but the problem persisted. When I put a set of brand new Accel's in it now fires up like new.
Bob
Put a fuel pressure guage on it and see if it holds pressure when you shut the engine off. If is drops rapidly like mine used to it is probably injectors. As was said before pinch off both the feed and return line and if you still lose pressure it is for sure the injectors.
I had this same problem last year. I even went the route of "reconditioning" my old ones but the problem persisted. When I put a set of brand new Accel's in it now fires up like new.
Bob
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 26,679
Likes: 17
From: This vette goes to 11 Milford MA
St. Jude Donor '03-'05
Re: Fuel injectors??? (Irocan)
Exact same symptoms I had, it will get progressively worse. I swapped in SVO 24 lb injectors and it starts fine all the time now.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,396
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From: Mickleton NJ
Re: Fuel injectors??? (Fastguy)
Take the advice of the guys here ,buy new injectors. I just had my injectors reconditioned and the car ran awful. I finally bought a set of Accel injectors from Jegs. It now runs like a bear ,still going around with Ligenfelter about the injectors that were bad ,that they said flow tested good . Good luck Jim
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 26,679
Likes: 17
From: This vette goes to 11 Milford MA
St. Jude Donor '03-'05
Re: Fuel injectors??? (Jim D)
I remember reading somewhere that the heat causes the impedance to change in old injectors, leading to hard starts. Even if they flow well cold, something changes when they are hot. I have no idea, all I know is my car would never start hot unless I floored it and then it would blow a big cloud of white smoke, from the raw fuel cleaning the oil from the cylinder walls. I changed injectors and now it starts ALWAYS and never even lets out the tiniest sign of smoke. The SVO injectors are light blue and fit the stock fuel rail even though they are a little shorter.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,157
Likes: 0
From: Orange County TX
Re: Fuel injectors??? (CFI-EFI)
Oil makes white smoke, fuel makes black smoke.
Dryseals,
Oil makes BLUE smoke.
Fuel makes BLACK smoke.
WATER makes WHITE smoke.
Anyhow, this is all a re-hash from a week or two ago.
Dryseals,
Oil makes BLUE smoke.
Fuel makes BLACK smoke.
WATER makes WHITE smoke.
Anyhow, this is all a re-hash from a week or two ago.
But to get to the original question, check the fuel pressure as I said, with the engine cold and warm see what it does. If it does not leak down then it may well be valve seals. This is the process of elimination. Valve seals are cheap, just a pain to do.
I just started on this board, hard to keep up because there is lots of chatter. And I've also seen lots of bad advice. Repairing cars is a logical thought process not a hit and miss (I call it easter egging).
Racer
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 428
Likes: 1
From: Friendswood Texas
Re: Fuel injectors??? (siberianhusky911)
I had the same problem. Replaced the injectors and it solved it. Leaking injectors is the likely culprit. Hook up a fuel pressure gauge and see how the pressure holds when the engine is shut down. Mine went to zero in about 25 - 35 minutes.
[Modified by Mike263, 6:57 PM 4/2/2002]
[Modified by Mike263, 6:57 PM 4/2/2002]
