My plan is to run a LPE 219 cam with 1.6 rockers. However, I won't be installing them at the same time. My question is this, can I run valve springs that will handle the 219 cam with 1.6 RRs on a stock cam with 1.6 RR setup? And what valve springs would I need?

All info is good info!


How do these look?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRS-98215/

 

Could someone maybe point me in the right direction on a good thing to search for maybe?

 

What kind of heads are you going to be using you are talking about .560 of lift if you are using a stock heads you will need to machine down your valve bosses or you will have a collision with you valve retainers and you need to know what valves you are using in some applications you may need to install a taller valve to get the lift you are talking about in that case it might be better to replace your heads then the never ending money pit starts The first thing I did was to look at install height on your heads and find out what you open height on your springs subtract the two to see if that spring will fit the .560 then you need to conciser how high you are going to be turning your motor the higher the rpm the stronger the spring rating you will need.

 

If you have a roller cam your cam it can handle the new springs

 

This is a very good read http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...l_springs.html

It talks about coil bind and the safety margin so if you see the coil bind height add .06 to it for safety margin
The spring you are looking at says the coil bind is 1.1 and you add .06 and your installed height 1.7 your max lift would be .54

 

Dang! That sounds like a major PITA. I guess it would probably be easiest to upgrade the cam and heads at the same time then? I have stock heads right now, but lookin into some AFR 195's eventually.

 

Measure twice cut once right?

And yes, I'm very leery of doing this myself, but I'm the type of person that likes to learn as much as I can about something before doing something with it. This is certainly not a job where I want to start pulling stuff off, and halfway through be wondering what these little doobers do or oh I bet this will be ok even though it doesn't fit right.

My curse is I'm a perfectionist, and that's why I'm trying to learn as much as I can now before I start tearing things apart. Heck, I was a member of this site before I even had the car, just because I wanted to start learning about it!

 

Pete gave some good advice, more to springs than just putting them in, installed height figuring coil bind etc makes a big difference.

 

Thank you very much. I feel privileged to have you reply to my thread, and really appreciate your input. I'm already seeing some things a little clearer now.

 

Another thing that would greatly help up making the best recommendations and advice is to include details about your current engine and the parts on it. Year, model engine, current mods, etc.

Then include the details on your intentions; what you plan to do with the engine (racing, DD, idle characteristics, on and on) then our advice can be tempered by what YOU want instead of OUR personal preferences.

Makes the whole exercise flow more smoothly since this definitely won't be the last time we'll be kicking around this and other issues.

Just my suggestions.

Jake

 

haha I guess I did kinda forget to include those details. 89 5.7 with dual exhaust and LT headers. For the most part it's stock

I would actually love to hear everyone and anyone's personal preferences on springs and why it is they feel that way. This takes all the hard work and testing out of my way and I can research the springs that interest me.

 

On my 113's heads my install height was around 1.72 but I have 2" intake valve and my heads were just done so your install height will be slightly different and should be checked before you buy any springs I bought the 26981-16 Comp Cams Beehive springs with the 08-502-8 with 1.6 RR my valve lift is .536 max on the spring is .525 but I the install height on the spring calls for 1.70 and I'm running a 1.72 so that make up the difference and I have 98 seat pressure so I am good

 

I really hope you're not the same guy, who went by a very similar screen name, who caused us - and other Forums as well - so much aggravation earlier this and last year. He ended up being banned from all of them as a result. In the hope that you're not, here goes with my take on a few of your issues:

Well, when it comes to springs, the camshaft sets the parameters. So you need to look up what springs your cam calls for. Now we'd have ballpark knowledge as to seat and open pressures, spring rate, etc.

From knowing that we can move on to manufacturers and see if they offer one that fits the bill, including installed height and diameter, etc.

At some point your budget will kick in. I'm sure we all have our views on that. My view is when they're inexpensive they're cheap! Notice the difference in terms? I hold strong views on that, irrespective to contrary views.

You asked to know that "why": The valve train is one of the most highly stressed part of an engine and trying to save $$ in that area isn't the way to go about it. Once one factors in the collateral damage that very often results when a valve train part lets go, the minimal savings (by going with cheap valve spring parts) flies out the window. Take the savings, multiple it by ten or more; there you go.

You'll be considering the choice between a self-aligning and non self-aligning valve train. Non self-aligning wins HANDS DOWN. CompCams and perhaps others, specifically says they do not recommend self-aligning rockers arms for a performance application. Seems that's what you're doing, right? Trying to increase performance.

Remember, what I write is often my view based on decades of screwing on these suckas and, yes, making my share of mistakes. I always try to remember to distinguish my personal opinion/view/opinion in what I post.

When I do post an opinion I've based it on something tangible. I try to maintain my source on which I base that opinion in my FAVORITES section so when I get called out on something I post I can cite my source.

I really wish everyone would do that, indicate it's THEIR OPINION, rather than come across as if they're posting inarguable fact and in an emphatic way. Guys will post something in such an emphatic way the reader would think it can from the mouth of the 'ALL KNOWING BUDDA' when, in reality it's either flatly wrong or just the writer's opinion (to which we're all entitled of course).

Still, sources often disagree, so what I often recommend is to first choose a source you can trust. So when such a conflict arises, and 'A' says such and such but 'B' says something to the contrary, if you TRUST 'A', you won't have a problem deciding which source to go with.

Let the games begin.

Jake

 

Wow. Didn't think my thread was starting anything, but I can assure you that I am not the same guy because I never even heard of this person and the only other forum I've been a member of, regarding cars, was dodgetalk because I owned a 03 dodge ram 4.7.

I really appreciate all the great info you guys are throwing at me!! Learning a lot, especially with the thread and pics Pete suggested. You do outstanding work!

And Jake, everytime I read one of your posts, it seems like they go on forever, but they are so educational. Keep spreadin the great info!

I have a general idea of what needs to be done now, but would I be better off taking it somewhere and having someone measure everything for me, or buying the tools to do it myself? I know this is not an area of the engine you want to try and shave some cost off of, but what about the cost of tools to get the job done?

I would like to go with a non self-aligning 1.6 RR setup. I know I will need guide plates and hardened pushrods but what else? Or would I be better off just buying a set of heads already assembled, throw them on, and call it quits?

 

I didn't think you were that same guy but he caused so many issues and stressed out everyone he's hard to forget.

Yea, I make 'em long on purpose. I like to try to anticipate what the newbies would need to know and write to their needs as well. I write to my audience and in such a way I hope they can understand. Sorry for those who are more advanced and have to read stuff they already know. You won't see very many one or two liners from me though.

Then we have the "snipers" who only sit in the rear just waiting for the chance to see some mistake so they jump right in a point it out. Bolsters their ego and seems that makes their day. Have at it, I say.

I'm always reminded that what I write here, even from as long ago as more than TEN YEARS - shows up even when I'm searching for something else using GOOGLE, BING, etc. I take pride in, how (not how much or what) I write, my word usage, spelling, sentence structure, paragraph separation, etc., etc., tells others about ME.

Harbor Freight is an excellent store for tools. Most of the car magazines are now including discount coupons to be used in the HF stores to give additional savings. HF has a really big selection too and have most of the basic tools you'll need. I drive as far as 50 miles, one way, to get to my closest one. I'm sure to take my shopping list too. The availability and savings on tools makes it well worth while.

Only other thing I can think of is, obviously, non self-aligning full roller rockers. Hardened, one piece, .080" chrome-moly, correct length pushrods. TrickFlow is a good place to start.

CompCams makes great ones but they tend to be more pricey. Once you're regularly over 6300 or so they're worth getting a second look. Has to do with resonance/vibration testing they've done on theirs.

Now's the perfect time to move up to 7/16" studs and rockers. Improves valve train stability and the cost is minimal. I suspect at some point you'll want to move to better flowing heads and the 7/16" parts will swap right over. You won't have to pay for the head seller's up-grade.

Order as many free catalogs as you can stand. Start with JEGS and SUMMIT. Search on-line for the best price for the same part. Costs do vary from site to site and there can be really significant differences. Don't be reluctant to call and haggle over the price either. Many have price matching policies but you have to ask. I saved a TON on my son's Dart cylinder heads from JEGS. I MEAN A WHOLE LOT!!! We're in the many hundreds here!

Then it's good to have Corvette Central, TPIS, Eckler's and other catalogs in your library. All I can think of right now. Hard to find, low demand parts can usually be found in those. Other guys will probably chime in here with other catalogs.

Guess that's about it for now.

Jake

 

You named off all the places I have a wish list for, except a couple things I found from Mid America Motorworks! lol

Thanks for the thought on going with 7/16" now. What will need to be done to the stock heads to make that happen? I would like to be able to do this without pulling them if possible.

And can I go with stock length pushrods, or am I going to need to do some math to figure up what will be needed?

I think I've found just about everything I would need from TPIS, but might, as you stated, try to find the same parts for a little cheaper in different places.

These include their:
6.VSP500 Dual Spring Valve Springs
6.RET500 Steel Retainers
6.SPS500 Hardened Spring Seats

Also what valve locks would I need to run? Does anyone have a link to some?

Let me know what ya'll think.

 

"And can I go with stock length pushrods, or am I going to need to do some math to figure up what will be needed?"

Below is a link to a site detailing the procedure to determine the correct pushrod length. It's the procedure I use and recommend, but, like so many other things, there are other procedures. In part, I chose Circle Track because it's dedicated to endurance engines. So my thinking is, who better than to pay attention to.

http://www.circletrack.com/techartic...gth/index.html

Remember, though, that buying the pushrods are the last thing you do and only after all the other valve trains parts and installed. Different valve trains parts effect pushrod lengths in different ways, so the engine has to be setup as it's going to run before you'll be able to find the correct length.

You'll need an adjustable pushrod tool; they're inexpensive and easy to use. Local parts stores may have them but I'm sure JEGS and SUMMIT, etc., carry them too.

The spring swap can be done with the heads on the engine and the engine in the car. You'll need a valve spring compressor. There are a few new styles on the market but I haven't tried them. Some of the guys here have and will probably post on their experience. IIRC, Crane's gets good reviews.

When it comes to your spring selection - and since you don't want to pull the heads - you have to make sure the springs you're considering will fit. Many have an OD that is too large for some stock heads spring pockets. Some spring ads will say if they'll fit but some ads don't so you need to check.

I highly recommend all your spring parts be from the same company and matched to each other. For example, if you find that CompCams 26918 Beehive spring meet the cam's requirements then you'd also want to buy CCs 787-16 steel retainers, 648-16 locks and 501-16 valve stem seals. Not Comp's springs, Crane's retainers and Isky's locks, etc. Stick with parts engineered to work together. I always try to minimize variables to prevent problems down the road. Mixing parts is a variable.

Hope this helps.

Jake