There is so much wrong here I don't know where to start...

IF carbs were so much better, the likes of Lingenfelter, Rippie and many other tuners would have ditched the FI and stuck carbs on their creations.

They didn't because:

FI gives you better driveability, with nearly any cam grind.
FI gives you better cold-start emissions control and manners
FI gives you WAYYYY better control of your fuel, metering out the EXACT A/F ratio needed for maximum power and/or fuel economy
FI gives you JUST as much power as a carb...period.

I'm building a 427 SBC with a DART block, Brodix T1 M2 227 heads and a Victor Jr. intake with fuel injection. My engine builder has done >10 of these engines now...it's pretty old hat to him. Only 1 has been carbed, and in N/A form they all made >750HP. His last one was built as a twin-turbo for a '57 Chevy, and with 15 lbs of boost made 1150 HP on the engine dyno. They expect after some fuel delivery issues are solved and the intercooler installed they'll get it to 20 PSI boost and well into the 1400-1500 HP range...fuel injected. AND, except for the really wild way the car will launch you into the next century when you mash the right pedal, it is a pretty tame car to drive to go down and pick up groceries.

Those who say that carbs are just as good are REALLY saying they don't have any interest in learning about fuel injection and how to tune it. With fuel injection, there is NO tweaking after the parameters are set. You don't need to change jets when the air density changes. The A/F ratio stays the same NO MATTER WHAT. With the right computer and O2 sensors on each header pipe you can even fine-tune the spray for each individual cylinder to make up for variances in intake and cylinder head flow rates.

You can't even come CLOSE to that with a carb. I'll get 2x the fuel mileage with FI, with everything else being equal in the motor. I can let it sit for weeks on end with a battery tender on it and it'll fire up on the first turn of the key within 2-3 seconds. I'll NEVER run lean. And even with a motor as radical as what I'm putting together I will STILL be able to take it to a testing station and pass an emissions test.

If I had a carb on it they would laugh me out of the place...not a snowballs chance in hell of passing the sniffer.

 

Why am I not surprised.

 

 

....regardless of fuel octane, quality, temperature, elevation (pressure), vacuum at any given rpm/load, etc..., etc..., etc...

There's also the ability to store non-linear timing maps too (improving driveability and performance.)

 

I don't believe many of you anymore likewise.

Very few of you have any formal training and experience doing machine work, engine blueprinting, assembly, have ASE certifications, competed in regional and national events racing, driven automobile above 140 mph.

Many of you just buy a pre -assembled engine from someone else and the consider your self smarter than anyone else in the world because its mounted between the framerails of your Vette.

There are a few highly talented people here on C4 with alot of racing experience and turning their own wrenches.

I know who they are and who is not.

I know who I am and exactly my past accomplishments.

Hang your pecker out and **** and yourself for a change.

 

I said, if you get the air fuel mix the same, the pistons and heads dont know the difference, im running 24 mpg on the highway, the same as FI with much more HP as long as you keep your foot out of it, your power band is much further then stock FI's because you have more airflow to play with and nobody even the engineers can disagree, i am one, I just got tierd of everybody saying FI is better, its not

 

not to mention maintance costs, when the computer cars came out ,the factory new they had the market, you had to bring it to the dealer to get it fixed.just a scam

 

you guys, i just thought it would be a fun debate between the new guys and the ole timers

 

I just replaced the fuel injectors on my 89 L98. Bosch design IIIs.

Car was running OK before but had random stalling issues. Based on lots of info here I decided to just do the change (old injectors sat on a shelf for years before I got the car).

After hassling with all the TPI intake stuff again, put it back together and now runs like crap. Lean popping, no throttle response, etc...

Most likely a vacuum leak on the TPI setup but had to call it a night - will work on it again tomorrow. Going to get a SBC intake and a nice carb!

(OK not really but it sure was a lot easier in those days of carbs...)

 

I agree with that a carb has proven itself but, your statement is too narrow. I have a 434 with 15 degree heads, the rear cylinders have a different fuel and spark curve because of airflow distribution to the rear cylinders. My cam is installed on a 102 and it idles at 750 RPM. A wider lobe separation is used to because with fuel injection you can get power over a wider RPM range, with a carb, as the size goes up the tuning of a carb RPM range changes upwards. Example an intake manifold has an operating range, when you get a higher performance intake, the operating range is shifted upwards. It is diiferculy to build a motor that needs lots of air that will run up to 8000 rpm and keep it satisfied with the air fuel requirements at 2500 RPM with carb, even if you use a dual carb setup. With fuel injection you can. Just because most people on this forum choose to use a wider LCA on their cam does not mean that is the limit to Fuel Injection.
Their is a guy on another forum that has a 430 CI motor that has a tunnel ram with twin 2300 throttle body that spins the motor to 8000 RPM and drives it and races it in the Hot Rod Drag Week. Also you don't have to spend 5K for a EFI system, there is a system called MegaSquirt that works. You seem to have a problem with a street car that are not built for running low times in a 1/4 mile. I have driven my car from Texas to California and to New Jersey with no problem, I have run in the triple digit for several miles, can your 8.40's 1/4 mile cars do that? You seem like a knowledgeable person, each system has their own plus and minus.

 

There are other EFI intakes than the flow restricted TPI available ( think Miniram or SP ) that will run > 7K like a single plane carb intake

 

FI is better than carb for my purpose.

 

your talking so minute difference in HP isnt even 1 thousands of a second in 1/8 or 1/4 mile not to mention the street

 

you all have to agree after all the conversation that theres no difference in the two as far as performance

 

Do you have a problem putting two thoughts in the same post before you hit ENTER?

You just defined your argument there.

When talking about PERFORMANCE only.

That point was already agreed with back in posts # 4 and 6

There are other factors affecting " street " cars where EFI has proven benefits over carbs

 

I agree when racing.............
especially poor mans' racing normally aspirated.
Meaning no turbos or superchargers.

Carburators make excellent midrange and top end power(2,500 - 9,000RPM +)

Carbs work great with nitrous also.

Pro stock cars running on racing gasoline equipped with Dominator style carbs have run into the deep 6's 1/4 mile and consistently.

If you want to spend $4- $7K+ in custom sheetmetal intake and aftermarket stand alone EFI system, more power can be had all around.

For what the average C4 is doing with their Vettes, stoplight action and wannabe 1/4 mile NHRA Super Stock Racers.......

Very little difference in overall power between a carburetor and a C4 factory based EFI system if they are both properly tuned with a wideband AFR or lamba gauge O2 sensor and the individual spends equal effort tuning each to Max performance capabilities.

Or they can tune alone by reading all 8 spark plugs carefully and run 1/8 & 1/4 mile times gauging performance increases with tuning changes too.
How it was done for many years till the late 1980's - 1990's.

I would not personally try to use a carb(IGLOO HAT) with large amounts of turbo boost or supercharger boost(18-32PSI +).

EFI works much more reliably with super amounts of Blown Boost Power Adder.

But it was done with Carburetors in WW2 in Supercharged Allison V12 and Royles Royce Merlin V12 engines.
2- stage superchargers ganged together in series boosted airflow.

They had Triptane gasoline too with 140 - 180 motor octane rating also.
Triptane gasoline costed over $500 a barrel to produce in 1942 $$ dollars.
Cost much more to get Triptane today with 110 race gas selling for $8.50 per gallon on average.

Computers and electronics can quit without notice.
They are all transistor & TTL based circuitry.

If you don't believe that then look around at your local racetrack and see how many MSD ignitions fail with guys using them for the past 5 or 10 years.
The smart guys using them carry spare MSD boxes and coils always.

Carburetor will keep working properly with regular or periodic maintenance.
Same holds true with a Vertex OAC & OAC magneto.

 

How many NHRA & IHRA Super Stock records have you set and broken?

I bet you were using carburetors on all...........correct?

Hell of accomplishment(s) you have under your belt.

 

No but your car can run 8.40's and I believe you.

But I have buddies that can run with you.
You guys can match race all afternoon into the night.
You are a real hotroder and racer and you would have alot of fun in Illinois racing your car too.

Like you said every intake and fuel delivery system has its pluses or minuses.

You are not totally accurate in your answer on difficulty feeding a large cubic inch engine to 8,000+RPM's with even a daul quad intake manifold.
It can be done and has been.
My late buddies 572 ci Vette is daul qaud carbed.
Spins up to 8,500 RPM's in high gear foot mashed on the gas hard.
Its an animal when unleashed when I take it for spin.

 

But the fuel injected V12 Daimler-Benz engine in the Bf 109 didn't not cut out and stall with high G 's like your carb engines above did

Seeing as you are going O/T again
DB 605 engine had a single stage S/C running on 87 octane with water / methanol boost when extra power needed

Compared to the two-stage two-speed and turbo-charged engines of the western powers it is impressive what Daimler-Benz could achieve with the single-stage DB 605. At the combat altitudes of 1944, the performance of the DB 605 rivalled that of the high altitude Merlins 60 and 70 series of the Spitfire and the Mustang.

 

Yeah Right LOL.

We American's shot you German's out of the sky very often.
You picked us off once in a while but we blasted you much more often.
Your country got blown to smithereens.
Much worse than ours.

*** Zeros' were fast But those Navy Plane Big American Radial Engines caught them and blasted them into kingdom come likewise.

Take your benz engine and stick it where the sun don't shine.............your ****...............hole.