Stahl Headers
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,765
Likes: 5
Stahl Headers
Anyone every purchase and use Stahl Headers on a C4 or non-C4 car?
How did they fit and perform on your SBC or BBC C4?
What RPM ranges were you operating in if racing with Stahl Headers?
Were you able to pull over 7,500- 8,000RPM's top end under full load (Induction system and camshaft and fuel & ignition matched/tuned of course)?
I have been a Hooker Super Competition Header fan for nearly 20 years driving and racing my Big Block Pontiac cars.
C4 Stahl headers are not cheap checking tonight.
Up there with Lemon or other custom headers.
Stahl is closing down shop as of June 1st, 2011.
Bad US economy is doing them in after being in business since 1963.
Guys like Bill Jenkins used Stahl headers in the early days of 1960's & 1970's Super Stock racing.
Spending $1500 - $2,000 for C4 headers in Big primary tubes (2") and a 4- inch collector is within reach for me.
Will I get my moneys worth dealing with and buying Stahl headers?
BR
How did they fit and perform on your SBC or BBC C4?
What RPM ranges were you operating in if racing with Stahl Headers?
Were you able to pull over 7,500- 8,000RPM's top end under full load (Induction system and camshaft and fuel & ignition matched/tuned of course)?
I have been a Hooker Super Competition Header fan for nearly 20 years driving and racing my Big Block Pontiac cars.
C4 Stahl headers are not cheap checking tonight.
Up there with Lemon or other custom headers.
Stahl is closing down shop as of June 1st, 2011.
Bad US economy is doing them in after being in business since 1963.
Guys like Bill Jenkins used Stahl headers in the early days of 1960's & 1970's Super Stock racing.
Spending $1500 - $2,000 for C4 headers in Big primary tubes (2") and a 4- inch collector is within reach for me.
Will I get my moneys worth dealing with and buying Stahl headers?
BR
Last edited by 87 vette 81 big girl; Apr 10, 2011 at 01:01 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,272
Likes: 17
Back in the day, they were quality. Looked at their site, its changed a bit, they seem to be having a 'not gonna do this nomo' sale. Used to be , if you needed to fit something like an old Hemi in a ford they were the folks to go to. Sorry I cant give more up to date info. Its been a long time.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 16,027
Likes: 170
From: oregon
if you're building a wild engine and looking at $2000 headers that's in the range of all our custom designs. one thought is to call a place like
http://www.sonnysracingengines.com/
and ask them who they recommend for headers. if you had the flow sheet for your engine, compression and cubic inches someone worth his salt should be able to build you a set that actually scavenge correctly.
http://www.sonnysracingengines.com/
and ask them who they recommend for headers. if you had the flow sheet for your engine, compression and cubic inches someone worth his salt should be able to build you a set that actually scavenge correctly.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,765
Likes: 5
if you're building a wild engine and looking at $2000 headers that's in the range of all our custom designs. one thought is to call a place like
http://www.sonnysracingengines.com/
and ask them who they recommend for headers. if you had the flow sheet for your engine, compression and cubic inches someone worth his salt should be able to build you a set that actually scavenge correctly.
http://www.sonnysracingengines.com/
and ask them who they recommend for headers. if you had the flow sheet for your engine, compression and cubic inches someone worth his salt should be able to build you a set that actually scavenge correctly.
That would be the most expensive set of headers I ever bought.
I always had great performance with Hooker Super Comp Headers.
Cost was $400-500.
Then I sent them out to Jet Hot Coatings for Ceramic- aluminum silver coatings.
They were a SOB to install always but I never had to dent any header tubes.
Just dent the floor pan on my Pontiacs with a ballpean hammer to clear the large collectors.
Stainless Works makes a 2" inch primary tube header for a C4 but they fit the ZR-1 cars only.
Stepped headers are nice and very KOOL but I prefer just a simple straight tube design of equal primary tube length.
I will do the tuning from there with fuel and ignition to match what the engine wants to run best.
Thanks for your help and tips.
Brian
Last edited by 87 vette 81 big girl; Apr 10, 2011 at 09:49 AM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,765
Likes: 5
Back in the day, they were quality. Looked at their site, its changed a bit, they seem to be having a 'not gonna do this nomo' sale. Used to be , if you needed to fit something like an old Hemi in a ford they were the folks to go to. Sorry I cant give more up to date info. Its been a long time.
They Acetylene Gas weld all tube joint connections yet today instead of MIG or TIG welding.
Gas welding anneals the weld joint so there are no future stress cracks.
And they Braze the primary tubes to the 5/16" or 3/8" header flanges together.
That's WW2 technology still used today only by them during fabrication.
I gas weld for fun sometimes and it can be a challenge.
Your left arm is married to the torch head. lol
Some of their headers have survived 12,000 dragstrip miles and 25 years racing with no ceramic jet hot coating on them.
That is surreal durability for any set of headers today or from the past.
And Stahl headers are only made from mild steel yet today.
BR
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,272
Likes: 17
back then , mig and tig werent as available or cost effective as they are today, switching to machines saved alot of time but you lost the built in 'heat treating' that the torch provided. an old trick you dont see much any more , was if you couldnt get the bends or the size you wanted going under the car, run em up and out the fenderwell or out the hood. made changing sparkplugs easier too.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 16,027
Likes: 170
From: oregon
super comps are a 1-3/4" primary, that's a bit small for an 8k rpm engine. in fact the 110 cubic inch honda engines use a 1-3/4" primary going to 8500rpm. even a 350 is 175 cubic inches per bank and with serious heads and compression really could benefit from that 2" primary and at least a 3.5" collector
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,765
Likes: 5
back then , mig and tig werent as available or cost effective as they are today, switching to machines saved alot of time but you lost the built in 'heat treating' that the torch provided. an old trick you dont see much any more , was if you couldnt get the bends or the size you wanted going under the car, run em up and out the fenderwell or out the hood. made changing sparkplugs easier too.
I kinda like the Nostalgia look of fenderwell headers.
But would really look out of place on a C4.
Illinois Cops would hate it too.
Side pipe exhaust by Hooker Headers look great on a C3 but only seen the Greenwood kit offered for a C4.
Sometimes I wonder really if all new modern technology is really always better than the old school way.
I grew up in the computer age and have a backgound in electronics in the late 80's & 90's.
I admire high tech but I grow bored of it sometimes.
I admire how the Pioneers of hotroding and drag racing did things with little high technology of computer assisted design worked and actually performed.
Those guys from the 1950's to 1980's were truly the best in the world.
Luckily some of those Pioneer Hotroders and racers are still with us today.
I know many of their legendary stories and accomplishments are Very TRUE.
Brian
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,765
Likes: 5
super comps are a 1-3/4" primary, that's a bit small for an 8k rpm engine. in fact the 110 cubic inch honda engines use a 1-3/4" primary going to 8500rpm. even a 350 is 175 cubic inches per bank and with serious heads and compression really could benefit from that 2" primary and at least a 3.5" collector
To my primary tube specs and close to(within 1") equal length primary tube length?
With a 4" collector?
You have a very strong fabrication and racing background I believe.
Brian
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 16,027
Likes: 170
From: oregon
here's a picture of some of their work they listed on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DOC-R...b#ht_642wt_939
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/K-ser...s#ht_579wt_939
their contact number is Contact # 503.473.1763 and the welder there is extremely bad ***. if you had a blueprint of what you wanted i would call the shop, go over the details and see if they are interested in the job. the one part i REALLY like about these guys is they are priced reasonable for the quality of parts they create. if you call ask to speak with the guy who actually creates the manifolds, not the counter person.
plan B would be finding out who does grassroots level NASCAR headers and see what they charge for a custom set.
Last edited by racebum; Apr 12, 2011 at 12:54 AM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,765
Likes: 5
don't have the equipment to do it properly but do know a local shop that does.
here's a picture of some of their work they listed on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DOC-R...b#ht_642wt_939
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/K-ser...s#ht_579wt_939
their contact number is Contact # 503.473.1763 and the welder there is extremely bad ***. if you had a blueprint of what you wanted i would call the shop, go over the details and see if they are interested in the job. the one part i REALLY like about these guys is they are priced reasonable for the quality of parts they create. if you call ask to speak with the guy who actually creates the manifolds, not the counter person.
plan B would be finding out who does grassroots level NASCAR headers and see what they charge for a custom set.
here's a picture of some of their work they listed on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DOC-R...b#ht_642wt_939
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/K-ser...s#ht_579wt_939
their contact number is Contact # 503.473.1763 and the welder there is extremely bad ***. if you had a blueprint of what you wanted i would call the shop, go over the details and see if they are interested in the job. the one part i REALLY like about these guys is they are priced reasonable for the quality of parts they create. if you call ask to speak with the guy who actually creates the manifolds, not the counter person.
plan B would be finding out who does grassroots level NASCAR headers and see what they charge for a custom set.
Brian
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 16,027
Likes: 170
From: oregon
