Hello forum.
I am needing some input here as I have only recently acquired my Vette and I am not a "gearhead". I have a 1988 coupe. Nothing weird modded. I was wanting to replace the original powerplant with something that has a little more go. I live in an area that does not have any mechanics that know much about power adders. The replacement motor I was envisioning would be a drop in replacement crate. I would ideally want to hook up the fuel, electric, and bolt it in and go. If some minor things needed to be done that is also doable. However the nearest tuner to me is 60 miles and although he is good, he is a dick. I was looking at about 5-600 horses. I have an auto tranny and I know this needs to be addressed but the motor first.
Thanks in advance ladies & gentlemen.
Perry aka Speed

 

Thank you for your opinion. I was hoping for a little more information than "it can't be done". If that much horsepower isn't doable what is and why. I am asking for help here not dead ends

Perry aka Speed

 

Put in a 427 CI LS motor. That will net you your 600 hp. Don't expect the rear end to last more than a few days. Not to mention the $15k Pete already mentioned.

 

I've highlighted the areas of concern... 500-600 HP in this car is not going to be a simple "Drop in replacement crate" - unless of course in that crate is a new z06 - then you can simply drop that in the driveway, turn the key and have a reliable 500+hp car.

Here's what I would do:
1) decided on a budget and driveability goals (i.e. smooth and quiet as stock to 'I can put up with having to run race fuel, give up low speed manners, and not pass emissions checks')
2) post up your location and get recommendations for shops in the area that can perform the work and if there really are NO good shops in the areas then plan on taking it and dropping it off somewhere to get the work done (and don't think this is a simple 1-2 day engine swap job)

Since you're paying for 100% of the work to be done I'd say 550 hp (half way between the 500-600) goal on a small block you're looking at either a big cube N/A setup (427-454" in an aftermarket block) or doing a buildup with some sort of forced induction (turbo or supercharger) and that's proabably going to pass that $15k mark mentioned by the time you address the fueling components, the transmission upgrades, the rear end upgrades, etc. to make it reliable enough to drive on the street and not worry about breaking things at every turn.

I would probably put the car up for sale and then look for an LS1 powered car (which they're getting affordable now - $8-12k for a 97/98 model) and then do a turbo setup on it - there are several options with the "simplest" one for a basic mechanic to bolt on is probably being an STS setup - which will get you into the 500 HP range.

 

I'd much rather be told by knowledgeable people at the outset that it isn't doable, practical or cost-effective than be cheered on to spend a lot of money on a fool's errand by a bunch of bemused onlookers.

A dead end is preferable to a cliff. Or the edge of a money pit.

 

ancianos first paragraph is dead nuts on.

You could do a 400rwhp motor thats still fairly driveable;it will cost; there is no cheap way to big power.

If you do forget all the cheapie Ebay chit and budget motors on youtube with big promises 90% of it is absolute trash.
If youre in love with the TPI intake then maybe not such a hot idea.



How much do you want to spend on this before going any further?

More info we have from you the easier it will be to give direction.

There is NO way in hell your mechanic is going to get 5-600hp from a TPI.
It takes more than people thing to make that 500+ mark.

 

I have a built 406 gen 1 sbc. I also have 500 horses. I have also spent $15,000 getting it right. I could go on and on, but if I were to do it again, I would call Jim Barth, or Pete K. Jim lives in SLC and I purchased heads from him and he lives down the road, so I would call him. Both can build you the engine you want and there are a lot of guys on this forum who will attest to their engine building prowness. THERE IS NO WAY TO DO THIS CHEAP, UNLESS YOU DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!!!

My car runs like a million bucks and I drive it every day. For a few bucks more than a "questionable" crate engine, these guys can build you what you want, and it will be right.

Pete K, your right, once I passed the 400 mark, my marriage was in deep weeds, my wife used to love the corvettes I drove, now she hates them.....

That's my two cents

 

Youll get a number of people telling you not to buy decent things, rebuild it with old junk stuff telling you can do it for cheap. Thats horsec4p
Dont fall for it unless you want to do it twice. That 500hp mark requires decent stuf and good machining. Dont need super pricy top notch but cheap/stock style wont last too long and youll worry every time you wind it out.

Post up a total budget maybe better help can be given from there.

 

I just installed a 500hp 396 Super Ram in my 85. I can tell you every post above is on the money. Those are the guys I listened to when going through the build process. Jim Barth (TPI421Vette) built mine.

It won't be cheap and it won't happen fast. It would help if you had a realistic budget to start with and share how you intend to drive the car. Street, strip, road race, all of them? What are your smog requirements? For the kind of Hp you want, every part of the engine needs to be addressed. Tuning is not a big problem. It's nice to have someone local but not necessary. I'm in California, my tuner is in Oklahoma.

Get ready to drink from a fire hose when you give us more info.

 

Okay, Now I'm getting some usable Info.... Thanks guys. It seems like 500hp is the number I keep seeing. So let's use that for the hypothetical base. Money: hmmm well I have about 20k I wouldn't want to exceed on this project. I live in Jonesboro Arkansas. I would prefer not to go Forced Induction and stick with normal or standard fuel injection. I need to stick with the auto tranny due to my health. I think that answers all the questions I've read.
Thanks again guys.

"I seek knowledge. Feed me"

Perry aka Speed

 

Given the HP goals - you didn't state if it had to even look like it might have to pass an emissions test or visual inspection. And it sounds like you want to drive it so I'm going to assume an overdrive transmission is going to be necessary..

Given the $20k budget and that's got to include labor and you're wanting a 'crate' - I'd look into the World Products motown small block based big cube engines - 427, 454" from a small-block based engine and it will meet your HP goals, "bolt in" and require no fabrication or custom parts or knowledge (i.e. like swapping an LSx engine in)

Here's an example : http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MLL-PS4271CTC/

That's $10k complete for the engine - next you'll need the supporting items:

- headers and exhaust (figure on the low end $500-600 for Hedmanns and a muffler shop bent 3" exhaust with cheap mufflers and up to a couple grand for some of the higher end setups - your choice there - just make sure it can flow enough to support the horsepower)
- Fuel system: pump, lines, regulator $500-1k
- Built transmission: 4L60 (upgraded 700R4) with ALL the upgraded components ($12-1500 for a locally built one, $2500 or so for a 'crate' one)
- Stall converter: 3500 rpm is about the biggest you can go and maintain the lockup function - and that's going to be marginal with 500+ HP - but it might be fine without nitrous or supercharged. - $600
- D44 rear end from a stick-shift car - which will be OK if you don't run slicks, avoid wheel hops and don't go to the drag strip $1500 - otherwise you'll have to be looking at solid axle swaps.
- Ignition: $500 - ignition box, coil, and wires (like an MSD digital 6AL, HVC coil, etc.)

That should get you the parts you need for right around $15k (and that's not super high-end anything) and leave $5k for labor - and that will have to cover engine/trans R&R, ignition hookup, exhaust hookup/fab, wire up the dash/gauges (need to look into what to do there) and if it's going to fit under the hood or you'll need to have bodywork or a raised cowl hood.

Personally I'd be looking at a built up LSx EFI engine but I don't think that setup is as "general shop swap friendly" - you'll need a shop that's familiar with electronics and fab since it won't be a direct bolt in for the old small block.

OH - and selling off some of the old parts will help recoup some of the costs and may give another couple $$ for additional labor.

 

Some good possiblilites there.

Look up tpi421Vette he puts together a number of very driveable 500hp+ motors for guys here, very honest and thorough.

 

If you have $20k, sell the car, buy a C5 auto ('97s & '98s go for $15k-$20k depending on condition and miles), swap the cam and heads and have an engine that is way more friendly, reliable, and supportable.

If you don't want to do that, then you need to:
- Define how you are going to use the car....Street only? Drag Racing? Auto-x? All of the above?
- Define what "street friendly" means to you...How loud of an exhaust can you stand? What is an acceptable idle quality...barely runs?, shakes the car like a top fuel car? smooth as a stock engine? somewhere in between?
- What rpm range do you want....5000rpm peak? 6000rpm?
- Do you want low end torque or high rpm hp?

etc

 

If you are willing to part with 20k trade your car in on a C6. May cost you a tad more but not much. Several have offered sound advice on the drive train, what hasn't been addressed is the suspension, steering and brakes. Next move on to wheels and tires. The goal posts are continually on the move.

 

This is to be my everyday driver. Not for drag or round course just something that kicks me in the pants when I want to mash the pedal. Normal work driving about 300 miles or so a week. Want to take it to the shows in Effingham and Eureka Springs. I am not looking for an exotic motor build just something with some more umpf. Is 500hp too high? Would lets say a 383 stroker be more doable?
Perry

 

Given an everyday driver then IMHO the "500-600 HP" out of a small block without a power adder (i.e. turbo) is going to take some of the fun out of daily driving the car.

I'd guess you would be happy with a basic 383 stroker, good heads (i.e. AFR), good milder cam, and a better intake with an exhaust to complement it - then get a mail-order tune until you can get it dyno tuned - should make 400 HP easily, and more importantly have good idle manners, good torque for stop-light drags, and not be overpowering as to break everything - plus save you a ton of cash and headaches of building a radical small block for the street.

 

This sounds more like what I envisioned bro. Can you be more descriptive on the parts? Where/what I should look at? I don't want a car I have to replace major stuff every month. Just one that has a little more torque and is very dependable. (got an SRT Ram that is blown and it fits that bill already as I have to fix on it almost weekly. That being said a 200mph truck IS a lot of fun LOL).

Thanks man,
Perry

 

I almost bought a single cab SRT-10 a couple months ago to play around with - they've always seemed like they would be fun!

As for the combo - do some searching - here and on google - there are a LOT of well published 383 combos out there with dyno sheets (which you can't rely on actual power numbers - but look at the HP/Torque curves to try and think how it's going to drive on the street where you spend most of the time between idle and 2800-ish RPM and a good healthy torque curve in this area will make the engine seem more powerful than an engine built for max HP at high RPMs.) - just be sure to weed out the cam specs for EFI friendly cams VS the tight lobe center carb friendly cams - FWIW you can get most cams ground on a slightly wider LSA to make it a little easier to tune on an EFI car

here's one I built that's a great street engine and doesn't use exotic parts and is reliable and prices are about list prices - better deals can be found:
Stock block, bored .030 over, clearanced for stroker, square decked for the piston to be .010" in the hole.
Eagle balanced rotating assembly (cast crank, hyper flat top pistons, I-beam rods - ~$800)
AFR 195cc heads w/64cc chamber ($1500)
Comp XR288 hydraulic roller cam (or XR276 cam for a little more low-end) on a 112 lobe center (I'd say 110* minimum for EFI - can use a cam calculator with DCR to play with dynamic compression to get a pump gas and EFI friendly cam) and matched lifters
Roller rockers (I used comp narrow body rockers on that one)
A TPIS mini-ram ($900) intake manifold

Finish it with the basics - felpro gaskets, double-roller timing chain, Clevite rod/main/cam bearings, brass freeze plugs, 32-39lb injectors, etc.

A 2800 Stall converter and basic HP built 700R4 will hold up fine and should cost ~$1k to get built (upgraded sun shell, 5-pinion planataries, z-pack, super servo, shift kit, etc.) - add labor to R&R

Get a mail-order tune to start and break it in on and run it on until you can drive it to a good tuning shop and get it tuned properly to maximize the power of the combo (there is a lot of power to be found in the timing and fueling adjustments) - and economy by tuning the cruise part throttle RPM ranges to get a good lean economical cruise (which IMHO most tuners don't spend enough time in tweaking this range since folks are typically only looking at WOT dyno numbers and the gains they get and customers don't want to pay for the cruise RPM stuff since it doesn't give bragging rights!)

That will be enough to boil the tires on demand and be close to doubling the power that the car came with and really make a fun street car that's nice to drive, gets OK gas mileage and runs on pump gas.

 

I'm like you, not a gearhead, but I wanted my '92 to have a great deal more power. Like everyone has said, it is not cheap or quick. I had my LT1 replaced with a LS3 hot cam GM Performance crate engine. Of course that entailed a new radiator, pulleys, alternator, AC compressor, headers, computer interface, new computer, new fuse box, new mini cats, fuel pump and fuel line modifications, and modifications to the 700r4. If you want to see pics of the build, google "C4orce2" and look for my photobucket. It has an album showing the build of C4orce2. Total cost was in excess of $22K and that was with a big break on the labor since the builder will be using the car for shows. The build took 3.5 months. To me it was worth it. After tuning on a loaded dyno the end results were SAE net hp of 578 and SAE net tq of 602. However, I cannot put larger tires on it or race it at all since we did not touch the dana 36 with 3.73 gears. Any racing will force me to replace that as well. Good luck!

 

Anything is possible with time and money! I would go with a big cubic inch because you will outgrow a 383 in a matter of months. A 421, 434 is a good choice with a really good set of heads. Most of the guys on here have had more than one engine in their Vette and that is because the need for more power is addictive. If you search around, there are some really good deals that can be had for quality parts. i would not by a crate engine because most of them are basicallly a production line operation. Your 700R4 can be made to handle 750 Horsepower, if that is not enough, a 200R4 can be made to handle 900 horsepower. As for the rearend as long as you dont bang the gears of put your foot in it from a stop, it will live especially if the transmission is not setup to shift really hard. You can get a LT1 intake for about $150 and have it worked on for around $450 and it would as much as a Miniram ( The Miniram is a take off of the LT1 intake). You dont need a 3500 stall because your not drag racing. It has alway been apparent to me anyway that when you talk about 500 - 600 horsepower most people thing that your racing and turning RPMs. I experienced this several years ago with my 434 build, the stall converter company wanted me to purchase a 3800 stall because of my heads, cam and cubic inch size, I had Jake called back with about the same specs but in a big block 434 instead of small block 434, a 2800 was a good choice. There is lots of good knowledge on this forum and opinions! This is your money and your car build it to satisfy your need and desire. The better your heds flow the easier it will be to get to 600 horsepower with a small duration cam.