I wanted to find some test data with engine/drivetrain info, RW dyno, and track times all on the same car to compare it with my little "Sim Drag" project.

The hoover 10 second car has a nice page that has info, dyno sheets, ETs, and even videos.

Here's how it went.

I built the motor using his specs in Dyno2000: I ended up with a 600HP (this is also what he estimates)


Here's my RearWheel HP output from my program and his dyno sheet.




Both graphs agree nicely same max HP and same max torque. So for the HP prediction and RW prediction results agree with his real life measurements.

Time for the Track Prediction using my homemade program.

He claims a 10.64s at 128.10 MPH

Here's my programs output.



10.68 @ 128.01

I think that is pretty much a match. It looks like I have all the constants dialed in for some accurate ET predictions. My program simulates the car all the way down the track every .005 seconds taking in rolling resistance, air drag, engine/drive train/wheel inertia, torque curve, shift points, tire expansion, just about everything that has a consistance impact on E.T.s

:cheers:


This is the webpage for Hoover.
http://phil.tobin.net/Hoover/top.html

 

thats way cool!!!!!!

 

And we can get your program where?

 

Wow... that is really close... :cool: stuff man!!

 

The program isn't in any shape or form for someone to use off the self, it's still in that nasty design phase. But when it's finished I will look into distributing it.

 

red94vette- if I gave you a read out of my setup, do you think you could estimate my hp & et.

 

:cool:

 

That is really cool! If I give you my combo, do you think you can come up with some numbers for me?


[Modified by zelement, 4:04 PM 5/27/2002]

 

Yeah that's point of the post, I would like to try it out on some of your cars.

I use dyno 2000 for the HP numbers right now but one day I might tackle an engine sim proggie. This program takes in Cubic Inches, Head Type or flow, induction type, CFM, cam specs, exhaust. What it doesn't do is take in small mods like K&N, tuning, mufflers, T/B bypass, ram air, air box. The program assumes everything is matched and running great to the engine combination.

Now if you already have rearwheel horsepower figures then this is where my program shines. I have modeled everything from the engine to the rear wheels using good ol physics. I just input the numbers hit start and I watch the numbers crunch as the car makes its way down the 1/4mile .005 seconds at a time.

My program takes in these factors:

Engine Torque Curve (or horsepower curve)
Tranny Gearing
Shift Points
Stall Converter or Clutch
Launch style (dump, slip, or stall converter)
Vehicle Weight
Frontal area and coeff of drag
Full Weather Model (temp, humidty, pressure, head wind)
Rear end gearing
front tire rolling resistance
rear tire rolling resistance
rear tire height
tire growth
Inertia (for engine, tranny, flywheel, pressure plate, converter, driveshaft, axles, front and rear tires)
drivetrain loss

What I would need to run some numbers is the:

Test weight of the car
Your TQ or HP numbers or heads/cam/exhaust/cubes/compression
Type of Trans (1st,2nd,3rd, or 4th if manual)
Rearend gear
Rear Tire Height

I don't need the exact frontal area or Cd since this doesn't have a big impact on 1/4 mile times, I usually use C4 data.

The engine inertia components I have are dialed in for a 350. Since my program takes into account tire inertia I can simulate having "skinnies" upfront if you are running those.

Go ahead and post some data and I will see what I get and see how it compares to your times or idea of how it should run.


oh and one biggie that my program isn't set up to do, spin the wheels. Imin the middle of modeling suspention components so I can find the rear tire downforce to get some accurate "Hook-Up" action on my sim so for right now it assumes you are running some fat slicks with VHT. No spinning in my sim world. :lol:

:cuss




[Modified by Red94Vette, 6:58 PM 5/27/2002]

 

Red- here it goes.... Race weight w/driver 3495lbs, 383cid, 11:8:1 compression,6'' rods, stage III 219cc LT4 heads flowing 298cfm @ 600' lift, Hydraulic roller 242' In 248' ex duration @ .50, 578' In 600'ex lift, 58mm TB,#36 injectors, ZF-6spd manuel, 3.45 gears, 1 3/4 Long tube headers no cats, 3' exhaust into flowmasters, 26'x10.5 E.T Streets. Oh and if you can compute it I also have a 200 wet shot of NOS. Thanks


[Modified by JB'S LT4, 10:49 PM 5/27/2002]


[Modified by JB'S LT4, 10:51 PM 5/27/2002]

 

wow pretty accurate. Hoover last time dynoed at exactly 500rwhp. As so your dyno comparison. Red94vette. an email is on the way in about 15minute for the pics of my D1 and car.


Bruce


[Modified by Bruce, 5:11 PM 5/27/2002]

 

I'm working the mojo....

JB.. would you happen to know lobe sep or centerline on the cam?


[Modified by Red94Vette, 7:05 PM 5/27/2002]

 

give me a minute to find the cam card

 

Here is its with 112 lobe and centerline

First the engine.. dyno2000 estimates..



583 HP @ 6500 RPM
535 FT LB @ 5000 RPM

Rearwheel estimation is..



476 RWHP @ 6500 RPM
437 FT LB @ 5000 RPM

That's some serious power there... time for the track using that power curve.

This is SAE corrected.. I can make another pass on a humid hot day or cold day.

You can tell the car doesn't like the 3.45 gears. I had to slip the clutch to keep the Revs up. If I dumped the clutch it falls out of it's power range. This is a 5000 RPM launch slipping the clutch. The motor liked to be shifted around 7000-7200 RPM.



Here's your slip, I hope you have a rollcage.



Your RPMS as you cross the line was around 5700 RPM so you're not really using all of your 4th gear power. The combination would love a lower gear if it were a motor only car. With the juice the RPM's will be higher. Time for the Juice Run...

This is with a 6" Rollout distance which was .17 seconds of rollout. 0-60MPH was 3.06s

:cool: :cool:


[Modified by Red94Vette, 7:40 PM 5/27/2002]

 

Wow.. I juiced it and got lots of clutch slip. The clutch I have in the car now is rated to hold 800 ft lbs of torque and it was slipping a lot between gears.



Even with the slipping the car ran...

9.59s @ 142.7 MPH with a 1.44 60'

Revs across the line was 6400 RPM.

This was a nitrous launch by the way. My sim only uses one engine curve so I don't have a nos on button as of yet. I need to make a dual engine curve one for motor and nos so I can hit it in certain gears. I will put that on the list.

I doubt with those tires and suspention you could put down a 1.44 60' time. I've seen nos vettes on 305 M&H's spraying off the line getting high 1.5's or low 1.6's. This was on a 352CID 92 yellow vette that ran 10.40's on juice and high 11's on motor. Joel was the driver.

The dyno2000 program showed extremely high cylinder pressure at lower RPMS so I would use a window switch for sure set up in the mid RPMs.

Hands the keys back to JB..

:cheers:


One last thing, dyno2000 kind of uses a cheesy Nos sim. It pretty much adds the shot all the way across the RPM range. If you have a 200HP shot it just adds it to every HP number at each RPM which gives GIANT torque at low revs, but since NOS flows in at a constant rate you should expect that in a juiced motor.




[Modified by Red94Vette, 8:04 PM 5/27/2002]

 

WoW :eek: Those are some sweet #'s... Well I just found the cam card 108 Int centerline, 112.0 lobe separation....Were those NA runs?

 

the first run was N/A the follow up was juice. Let me plug in the correct centerline and try it on the motor again.

It ran a 10.84 at 127.8 on motor so it stayed about the same.

Your cam with 108 intake centerline
463 RWHP at 6000 RPM
442 FT LBS at 5000 RPM


Same cam but 112 intake centerline
476 RWHP @ 6500 RPM
437 FT LB @ 5000 RPM

*** Notice that the smaller centerline cam hurt top end horsepower but upped your mid range torque.




[Modified by Red94Vette, 8:18 PM 5/27/2002]

 

Yea, it's a nitrous cam therefore it should be a monster on the bottle, that's also why I stayed with the 3:45's...I'll have to say it's pretty darn close to what I was expecting, I was guessing 550-560 fwhp, a 7.10 1/8 and a real low 11.1x 1/4 mile NA...On the juice I can't possibly imagine running 9.50's (I have no roll cage) I just hope to touch the 10.0x area.. That program kick's butt thanks again Redvette. ;)

 

Yeah the NOS part of the dyno 2000 leaves a lot to be desired. I like the N/A results but the NOS runs seems to be on the high side. That 9.59 is the best case no traction loss, full spray out of the hole.. that's a serious run there.

My brother has a 69 Z28 with a N/A 540 and it runs 9.70's. It puts out 800+ HP so with your 550Hp estimate plus the 200 shot nos should but you close to that.

My 406 Z28 runs low 11's on motor and low 10's on spray (175+) and it has a lot less head than what you are running, mines a set of brodix track I heads that flow around 265 @ 28" H20. I could imagine your setup sqweeking the 9's

 

Red,

I just went to the dyno last week and would like to compare your results to the Dynojet 246E's results. I think that the dyno guy screwed up on my # because he only took the car up to 6,000 rpm, when I know the car is making power up til 6,200 or so.

Well, here are my mods. ZZ-4 short block with 9.6:1 Compression ratio, LT-4 HOt cam 218 I 228 E, 112 LSA, .525/.525 with 1.6 Roller rockers, AFR 195 competition heads with 64cc CC@ .500 lift (CFM @ 28" H2O) 275 I and 195 E. TPIS mini-ram, 52 mm T-body, 24# injectors, with 40# psi fuel pressure, 1 3/4" Full lengths, no AIR pump, no cats and dual 3" exhaust. Plus 150 shot of nitrous.

The car has a 700R-4 with 3.07s in the rear and 2600 converter, I will be running 26" ET streets. THe weight of my car is around 3500 with me in it.

Please give me both times and hp for on and off the juice.
I will let you know my actual dyno #s from last week, but what I really want to know is my 1/4 time because I am going to the track on Saturday.

Thanks,

Paul





[Modified by zelement, 10:26 PM 5/27/2002]