...

 

Very Good advise!

I suggest you read it! Learn it! Live it!

Cheap crap parts made in China will always give you nightmares eventually!
Sometimes you actually get what you pay for!

 

[/B]


I understand where you are coming from. I just looked and its $495.00 plus shipping. compared to $229.00 shipped for a , no doubt chinese version.
Money is getting tight on what I too, can spend on my car. I just wish Dewitt had a special going like he did last year, ie 10% off and free shipping and I would do it!! But so far, I have not seen anything this year.

 

Ever think of asking for a CF discount?

Maybe a few more members ante up and he'll work a deal.

 

If y'all doubt that a $100 OEM radiator will work wonderfully in that stock '94 you are very sadly mistaken.

 

The OP stated he wanted to upgrade the OEM radiator.

 

That's a good point -- that the prior "generation" of CF user wouldn't have let slide. For example, the first question should have been why and what are the requirements? BTUs? 383? 454? Jet Turbine?

Some of us are slipping. Others are too busy with the mine-is-better-than-yours speech.

 

I have a DeWitts in my C4 drag car, very happy with it..... well worth the money.....

 

I'm aware of the OPs desire to upgrade the radiator. I have 50 miles on my OEM replacement after owning the car 10 years and am astonished at the difference in the cooling capability. It wasn't a hard job at all relative to some repairs and really made a difference. I can't see how spending another $400 would be worthwhile. I've spared no expense for this car and it is really nice now. Could say 'wasted' money. My take is simply that there is a large diminishing return in the area of radiators after the recent replacement. This only pertains to a stock engine.

Please remember the forum is for expressing opinions and relaying experiences to help each other and this is mine.

 

Member Kubiak is using one of the Champions in the race car he's building....

 

tlong, your experiences with OEM radiators is respected.
The fact that the general scrimped on this part for the C4 remains a hot topic. (heh)

My 86 responds favorably to the increased cooling of the larger capacity radiator.
I'm running a Stant 195 that heats up normally and most importantly, cools off quicker than OEM.








.I apologize for sounding so harsh and insensitive sometimes.
It's just the utter stupidity of liberials sometimes angers me.

 

I can't get over the fact that most of the guys that keep beating the dead horse (mines bigger than yours mentality cause I paid more) are ASSUMING that the alternative is chinese thereby making it taboo in some way.

As meaningless as all that is to me since I KNOW mine was made in the USA, its kinda discouraging to see the high school debate continue...

Another point, who says that the chinese product is as rotten as some assume it to be? I have yet to see ANYONE here or elsewhere that actually had a problem. Its always...."I saw someone post on another forum" or "I heard of a guy that had a brother..." Sounds like so much hog wash to me...

Show me the money ! Show me some evidence that IF these chinese radiators truely ARE junk...prove it ! Otherwise lets respect the decision of some folks to save some big money for whatever their reason.

I still have trouble with that extra $300 in my pocket...

 

I ordered the Champion. I'll let y'all know how it works out.

 

Good for you, because if you have installed cheap made in China parts on your C4 your going to need that cash to eventually replace those parts when they eventually fail before they should!

Here try rereading this thread;

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...placement.html

One should beware of claims made by forum vendors, but I find Mr Dewitt to be honest and his insights on made in China aluminum radiators to be right on the mark! Is a 30% failure rate over time acceptable to you?? It's not for me!

 

Start a poll or thread. See who bought what, when, where, and why. China-made parts appear here to stay. Even the thread linked above shows that DeWitts went through a China-source phase.

Just like American stuff, I'm sure there's good and there's bad. And, some brands get better with time. A good example is Eagle, who sourced to the Chinese, had initial runs with less-than-perfect results and had to start over again. Quality improved and people are still buying Scat/Eagle stuff right and left. It's simply what most can afford.

The notion that this is a liberal vs. conservative topic is funny, btw.

I get the Chinese vs. American angle but I didn't think this was about which philosophy is right. It's about what's a good upgrade...and a good value.

Two row radiators are a good upgrade from stock. And, they cost more than an OEM single-core -- regardless of where they're made. DeWitts, BeCool, (and maybe another make) are what's touted as the "Cadillac" for our "Corvettes". No one has ever directly compared results -- which I tried to get started in another thread. Personally, I think comparing results is as "conservative" method as you can get. I didn't care about looks or getting the very best, I cared about price, value, and still getting reasonable quality. (It's why most of us buy Chevy's vs. Mercedes, BMW, etc...)

No one cares or wants to do meaningful comparison. It's all about "mine is better than yours". As someone who's read thru many a thread looking for the right part, at the right price, for each step of my build/customization, I can say I never looked at the bickering, posturing, or pride. I only looked for the results. The successes and the failures.

When people read this thread and start to search through threads, I'm fairly sure that's what most will look for. Apparently, there's not one of us prepared to present anything concrete beyond that.

This is a subject that needed discussing IMO, and I tried to get that going a year ago. Because two many like to attack and drag personal opinion into the topic, it appears there's no way to acheive anything objective. Polls might be another way to go...but I'm convinced people would vote to coerce the results -- just as they do verbally.

With great tools -- like the internet -- it's ashame to let them go to waste. At least the patient ones can muddle thru and find evidence on their own. Obviously, they won't find it here. And, they won't get it quickly.

 

Good for ME

Shouldn't you be doing your homework?

Had you been able to comprehend what was WRITTEN in plain English, you MIGHT have caught the part where it clearly states that MY radiator was MFG in the USA...or did the USA part slip right over your ____head?
...you completely miss the point of the post. Not surprising. I was once a victim of public education myself...

Jeeze...some people just want to argue ! I'm going to be the bigger man and walk away from that juvenile invite and be done with this...
Like I said in the very first reply to the Ops query...Here we go...

Well...
Here I go....



Enjoy your arguement with someone that has reason to argue. Since I own a made in the USA radiator that disqualifies me....


"Possibly it was assembled in the USA from cheap made in China cores? " Really?Where the F___does that logic come from? beer cans?

2 yrs of service and not even a bent fin. I guess you;d say that a failure is enevitable by 6 or 8yrs...premature.

Tell me there mr Mako..what did T. DeWitt have for breakfast? Have another sip of the kool-aid..

 

Illinois...
That would be the ECP brand, (Engineered Cooling Systems) which is Entropy's imported product. Not made in USA.

 

I would agree with that statement -- after contacting them a year ago. Both Champion and ECP say they design their radiators here and have them made overseas, then imported. IMO, the two units look like they're made in the same facility. Since Champion has better customer service -- and accessibility -- I ended up going that route.

Had I felt the Champion 2-row was insufficient to deal with the cooling needs of my 383, I would have looked into a DeWitts. I had trolled the 4-sale forum for a new/resold unit. It seems you see one from time-to-time. But, as sold new, the price (for me) was too high. (This coming from someone who spent thousands on a customization/restoration project.)

That said, I ended up convinced that the Champion would serve me as well -- with a lower cost. You could call me unpatriotic -- for buying imported products. But, I'm certainly not the only one in America for doing so. When I was a kid, that was a real issue, now it's just a fact of life. You have to make price-competitive and product-competitive products to stay in the game.

Since Tom, you're an expert in this area, I could invite your opinion on these newer AE units yourself. I haven't seen complaints of 30% failure rate (though I'm not debating the issue of your past experience). Again, I believe any company can improve it's quality. It's sounds like even you could (and did) consider an imported source -- if it's beneficial/necessary to your business. (Mako41 linked us to a thread where you made this admission.)

Please consider wagering me that my Champion won't last "X" amount of time or won't suite my cooling needs -- where a like DeWitt's product would do so -- as a direct replacement. It doesn't sound like a sure bet on your part.

Even in the budget radiator thread (where I diligently tried to separate these two categories of cooling products), I've admitted I still have a minor issue. I'm gaining temps while standing still, with the A/C running, in the middle of the summer. Even then it would take 15-20 minutes before I would be seriously concerned about overheating the motor.




It's clear to me -- and confirmed by Champion -- that my fan capacity needs to be raised due to this issue. I don't know whether it's due to:

• Reduced radiator-to-condenser spacing (from the larger radiator)
• Increased density of the core (which requires more force to blow thru it) --or--
• Another reason I haven't thought of

But it seems clear the AE (Champion) unit is sufficient for my above average cooling needs -- because temps never run high when rolling down the road. Now I need a fan sufficient to address that new issue: standing still for an excessive period of time.

Again, I would have looked to your products if it weren't for comments about the overly loud fans you sell. The reason is: moving air makes noise. But my research also shows that various fan designs can add/subtract from that affect.

Another (kind) member who refrained from making a forum comparison (after seeing how poorly my radiator thread was received), shared his results with me. It looks like he found an OEM-quiet fan with better-than-DeWitts CFM performance. I'm sorry to say that means I have to go another direction than DeWitt's again. (Though this member did say he recommends your fan adapter for the installation. And, that I will be doing.)

This time, last year, you talked about creating another, lower-priced unit that was more price-competitive with these imports. Maybe I missed any news on your progress, but I haven't seen that. If you were to make progress on a radiator or fan that impressed our members in terms of quality AND price, I would be at the front of the line to support your products.

I'm not against DeWitt's, I only like to support what seems like the best value and price before choosing a product. Normally, I end up with good results. In my 383 build, there were only 2-3 things that I would have done differently...but that's out of about 100 details. It's nothing I regret.

In the long run, I think most consumers look for value in their shopping. At DeWitt's, I understand unsurpased quality and customer service are your goals. To that, I can't deny. I can only say I think there are other products that serve the C4 community with respect to the huge number of units remaining on the road -- and the dwindling value and resources of their owners.

I've been an owner of a C4 since 1999 and am proud of it as any car I've ever owned. I'd like to say I've put as much time/effort into that car -- as you care about your company. And, we've both have feedback we didn't want to hear.

In this case, I think the best value is a Champion unit, it'll provide the same (or nearly the same cooling capacity), they have good customer service, and I suspect the failure rate is not 30% anymore.

As stated in my comparison thread and earlier in this thread, specific data is something I'm always willing to see/hear. Anytime you'd like to contribute, this C4 community is always willing to listen. We like companies where ownership listens direclty to this forum. Those types of members are few and far between.

Tony @ AFR used to be one of them -- but moved on to other things. Someday, I assume the natural progression of events will force the same from you. But, I have no idea. You might surprise us.

Thanks for reading.
Gregg

 

 

Do my homework?? You might want to check out this thread;

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...-radiator.html

Not really sure what Mr. DeWitt had for breakfast today,but it seems he knows his business well enough to know that the radiator you've been touting as "Made In America" (For $200.00!!)

Is actually imported! What a surprise!!!!!!

Or maybe you weren't sure where Illanoids actually is, might be a province in China!

Is that plain english, because they never taught us that in school!