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84 Excessive Negative Camber

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Old Nov 17, 2012 | 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by VettoVette
your's are the right ones, your suspension looks undisturbed from factory.
Thank you, it's ironic that everywhere i look the po has done something to bypass or jerry rig something.

Most of what i see is pure neglect on the suspension, looks like super cheap shocks are on there too.

Every time i hit a bump i go flying into the targa top !!!! very very rough ride.
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Old Nov 17, 2012 | 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by GQ-ROD
Thank you, it's ironic that everywhere i look the po has done something to bypass or jerry rig something.

Most of what i see is pure neglect on the suspension, looks like super cheap shocks are on there too.

Every time i hit a bump i go flying into the targa top !!!! very very rough ride.
thats the 84 for you, if memory serves, the 84 stock springs have a higher tension rating then any year after even the ones with the z51 package. I have 3 inch wheel adapters on my rears and notice a huge cushioning in the springs now, the extra leverage makes the spring essentially softer.
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Old Nov 17, 2012 | 06:12 PM
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Surprisingly it's not bad on the highway very smooth highways down here, but one little bump and it's game over for your ribs and kidney's.

I do love how despite how much work it needs and tuning it needs, the handling is so precise as is the steering, very responsive and plants itself in corners which is what i like best about it.

Sounds like this will be destined to be a cruise night car LOL low and slow!!
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Old Nov 17, 2012 | 08:13 PM
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No one serious about auto-x would run -2.8 that is too much. Those bushings don't look terrible. I've seen much worse. Come to think of it mine might be worse, looking. No play, everything holds just fine.

Check for anything loose like the wheel bearings. My eccentric is very close to the position of yours. Yet I do not have the huge camber you do.
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Old Nov 17, 2012 | 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 93Rubie
No one serious about auto-x would run -2.8 that is too much. Those bushings don't look terrible. I've seen much worse. Come to think of it mine might be worse, looking. No play, everything holds just fine.

Check for anything loose like the wheel bearings. My eccentric is very close to the position of yours. Yet I do not have the huge camber you do.
Thank you sincerely i appreciate your help and advice, i'll check the bearing hopefully if it's not loose i'll have to look at why else it would have so much camber and try to eyeball adjust it until i get the camber gauge.
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Old Nov 18, 2012 | 12:03 AM
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On the '84, do not go with the stiffer bushings......
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Old Nov 18, 2012 | 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jhammons01
On the '84, do not go with the stiffer bushings......
I'd like to stick with rubber the ride is already stiff and harsh enough over bumps.
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Old Nov 18, 2012 | 11:32 AM
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That is exactly the reason.

The regular '84 suspension became the '85 Z51 suspension....the '84 was really stiff.
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Old Nov 18, 2012 | 12:06 PM
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rubber wears out alot faster then polyurethane tho, my honest opinion is do the polyurethane regardless so you dont have to do all of that again in the future. if you are really concerned about the spring stiffness go find a wrecked later model C4 and take the spring out of it, the rear takes all of 10 minutes to replace, its the two transverse spring bolts to knuckle and 4 bolts in the center of the spring.
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Old Nov 18, 2012 | 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by GQ-ROD
I'd like to stick with rubber the ride is already stiff and harsh enough over bumps.
The only way to do that will be to find some NOS or used suspension components. The rubber bushings themselves are not serviced separately.

For used, try "Corvette Recycling". They deal with pretty low-mileage cars so their parts are often nearly like new. They also sell some NOS. Otherwise, Google will be your friend as anything (and I doubt there's much) in stock with a dealer will be over-priced.

You should take the car to a self-service car wash and blast all the crap off. It'll make it much easier to see what's going on.

Btw...when adjusting the eccentric, make sure both sides are turning (Eccentric / bracket / Eccentric with a bolt in the middle). In addition, the eccentric and bolt have a flat so that both will turn. However, as you've found, it's pretty amazing what some previous owners can come up with to circumvent the "idiot proofing" the design included. This can include rounding them our tightening the bolt/nut such that the eccentric is outside of the bracket it sits in and presses against .


In these pics you can see the eccentric. There's another one on the other side...


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Old Nov 18, 2012 | 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 96GS#007
The only way to do that will be to find some NOS or used suspension components. The rubber bushings themselves are not serviced separately.

For used, try "Corvette Recycling". They deal with pretty low-mileage cars so their parts are often nearly like new. They also sell some NOS. Otherwise, Google will be your friend as anything (and I doubt there's much) in stock with a dealer will be over-priced.

You should take the car to a self-service car wash and blast all the crap off. It'll make it much easier to see what's going on.

Btw...when adjusting the eccentric, make sure both sides are turning (Eccentric / bracket / Eccentric with a bolt in the middle). In addition, the eccentric and bolt have a flat so that both will turn. However, as you've found, it's pretty amazing what some previous owners can come up with to circumvent the "idiot proofing" the design included. This can include rounding them our tightening the bolt/nut such that the eccentric is outside of the bracket it sits in and presses against .


In these pics you can see the eccentric. There's another one on the other side...


Thank you for the advice, i have resigned myself to installing when the time comes urethane since you are right the bushings are hard to find.

Thanks for the pics it makes it clearer now.

In the middle of stripping the valve covers so when that's done i'll check the bearing for play.
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Old Nov 19, 2012 | 02:52 PM
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Wanted to know if any members could clarify this formula for those of us without a camber gauge yet to convert inches/mm to degrees.

Got it from another website thought others could benefit.

The following chart and formula is copied as it was.

A step by step walk through would be appreciated, for example what is the value of inverse tan in this case?

[IMG][/IMG]

inverse tan( __mm measured / _mm bar length ) = __ deg camber

Or, if you like using inches (I use inches when measuring camber):

inverse tan( 0.863in / 18in ) = 2.7 deg camber
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Old Nov 23, 2012 | 10:27 PM
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Ok waiting for parts to finish the valve covers so i gave this another crack to have closure, thought members might value this.

arc tan is the product of wheel diameter divided by the distance from the level vertical plane to the top edge of the wheel.

16 inch wheel

1 3/8 of an inch distance measured from level vertical plane to top edge of wheel.

1 3/8 inches = 1.375 inches = 34.925 milimeters

16.0 inches = 406.4 milimeters

ArcTan( 34.925 / 406.4) = ArcTan (0.0859375) = 4.918

So in my case 7.1014640097600 milimeters equals 1 degree of camber on a 16 inch wheel.

So i have 4.918 degrees of negative camber. ( your results will vary depending on wheel size etc ).

Feel free to check my math it's been awhile since i had to rebuild a rocket engine with a spoon and a toothpick.
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Old Nov 24, 2012 | 12:16 AM
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why not just use a protractor with a swing arm?
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Old Nov 24, 2012 | 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by VettoVette
why not just use a protractor with a swing arm?
Chances are the last time anyone had a protractor was in school, thought this formula would be a good quick reference.
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Old Nov 24, 2012 | 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by GQ-ROD
Chances are the last time anyone had a protractor was in school, thought this formula would be a good quick reference.
I guess im the odd duck out :P
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Old Nov 24, 2012 | 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by leesvet
This is wasting a LOT of your valuable brain power...calculating a variable, and treating it as a constant or fixed value is a waste of time.

Rear camber can be set by EYE and ride height. If your car is at its normal ride height, then set the wheel so its flat against the road surface.A slight pos camber in the rear IF you have a load or soft suspension.
This is NOT SUPER critical to be dead nuts splittin hairs exact because,

everytime the rear suspension moves, the camber angle does too. Thats damn near constant when the car is in motion.
The rear spring has to do with camber angle,. make sure the spring is not cracked and looks level on both sides. The Transverse monospring was designed to act as a torsion bar of sorts to help keep the body leveled. sway bars prevent body roll,. the spring helps prevents body lean or sag. The flatter the spring the harder the ride. The more arc in a spring the softer the ride and the further the travel.

Your bushings are good 'nuff for a street car. I would clean them with high pressure washing, then lubricate with wet silicone grease or spray. Silicone is good for preserving the type of rubber in bushings and its a lubricant.

If you want to change bushings, get some that have grease zerks. Poly bushings can come for petro grease or silicone only.; Plan ahead.. getting a grease gun thats ONLY for silicone or synthetic grease is not a big deal...use it for suspension ONLY. Saves the cups, seals and the bushings. Adding grease flushes crud out so it does not cause wear in the bushing.

Your pics show a massive amount of camber adjustment left. Like there is NONE being used on one side and very very little on the other. You've got plenty to go either way. You'd be surprised as to how sensitive that cam is to the camber angle.....1mm there is closer to 1" at the end of the lower strut magnified by the diameter of the wheel.

For now, just jack the car up on stands, break the camber bolt loose, turn it 1/4 turn to pull IN the lower strut and set it back down. I can assure you that this will be a major improvement, and you can do it again to get it closer. This is trial & error but it will get you there.

Finally and probably the single most important part of rear end alignment is the rear TOE assy.

This is not to be messed with...Yes, it is adjustable but it has a weak link. The outter rod ends can be changed as they wear. The INNERS cannot. The INNER is a simple ball in a plastic socket that will wear and get loose and extreme cases the rod pulls out of the inner socket. I have seen this and it causes an instant HARD turn when a rear wheel suddenly flops outward at 60 mph. The one I saw went into the K rail left lane. Totalled.

Test these by removing the outer end and feeling the stiffness of the inner socket. It is supposed to be able to be lifted and support its own weight, and more. If it is so loose that it falls and cannot hold itself, park it and replace immediately. Its not safe.

Your rear spring is suspect IMO....having that much neg rear camber is the same as having an extra 500lbs in the cargo area OR a spring that can no longer lift the car to ride height. I would look closely at the spring, even take it out and look for fine splintered spots. You CAN replace that spring with one thats got MORE arc to help lift the rear and soften the ride. Good shocks help, but that 84 spring was harsh...I have one on my 87 for its high speed stability but its a B!tch around town in a state that does not believe in fixing roads.

Make a manual weather mans guess and adjust your camber, not a big deal.

Check the spring for cracks and why its lowered the rear end. (ride height looks low)

check, test the toe assembly.

Otherwise, you're ok. Don't over think it...it really is easier than it seems.

..and anyone that cannot align a Corvette on a machine is either an eswcaped mental patient or just plain stupid...I'm with Ruby...it can be done 90% at home. Caster is the worst part without a laser. Strings, tapes, and a notepad to draw out and note each adjustment are all it takes. If you have a clean smooth floor, thats ever better. A sharpie and some measurments...on the road again.

Great advice thank you!
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Old Nov 24, 2012 | 11:37 AM
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why all the drama?

your pics show a bunch of adjustment. The bushings are normal.
Just turn the cam bolt to get it close. ITS NOT life or death....the camber changes constantly as the car rolls, so getting the rears centered at NORMAL ride height is the goal. Not an absolute.

One more thing...your spring is the biggest suspect in both wheels with neg camber. If its cracker or broken the rear sags...drops and the camber goes neg.

If there is excess weight the camber goes neg.

Check ride height. Thats a clue. Adjust spring end link bolts/nuts. But DO inspect the rear spring for ANY cracks, splinters or signs of delam.

If you or the PO EVER used a degreaser on the rear end or underside, that solves the problem. Chemical degreasers will cause the e[poxie in the composite to degrade and the spring essentially comes apart because the resins break down. It may crack, get soft, or splinter. Thats as common as a sunrise. GM issues service bulletins on the use of degreasers on or near springs.....Good news is that you can get a softer spring with some arc that will give a better ride and more ride height....as long as you buy some decent shocks.

Just jack it up and turn the camber bolt. One way sends the lower rod out....the other way pulls it in. Not a big deal. 180ft/lbs on the floor is the biggest challenge.......little room for a cheater pipe so eat some Wheaties...
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Old Nov 24, 2012 | 11:42 AM
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LOL..........

omg...I thought THAT post was lost so I re-wrote it again...the abridged version !
but you get my drift.

This is easy. make sure the spring is OK, check the toe assy inner sockets for tightness, and you can make this adjustment by "eye'ng" the wheel when the right ride height is present. Get a "proper" laser 4 wheel thrust angle alignment after you change some bushings or do your other work. For now, this is a DIY deal with a little effort. I just did mine a couple days ago and it came out nice except for a hair too much front toe out...gonna pull 'em in 1/2 to 3/4 turn today and test drive. Looking for hiway stability more than diving into corners in city traffic these days....
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Old Nov 24, 2012 | 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by leesvet
why all the drama?

your pics show a bunch of adjustment. The bushings are normal.
Just turn the cam bolt to get it close. ITS NOT life or death....the camber changes constantly as the car rolls, so getting the rears centered at NORMAL ride height is the goal. Not an absolute.

One more thing...your spring is the biggest suspect in both wheels with neg camber. If its cracker or broken the rear sags...drops and the camber goes neg.

If there is excess weight the camber goes neg.

Check ride height. Thats a clue. Adjust spring end link bolts/nuts. But DO inspect the rear spring for ANY cracks, splinters or signs of delam.

If you or the PO EVER used a degreaser on the rear end or underside, that solves the problem. Chemical degreasers will cause the e[poxie in the composite to degrade and the spring essentially comes apart because the resins break down. It may crack, get soft, or splinter. Thats as common as a sunrise. GM issues service bulletins on the use of degreasers on or near springs.....Good news is that you can get a softer spring with some arc that will give a better ride and more ride height....as long as you buy some decent shocks.

Just jack it up and turn the camber bolt. One way sends the lower rod out....the other way pulls it in. Not a big deal. 180ft/lbs on the floor is the biggest challenge.......little room for a cheater pipe so eat some Wheaties...
No drama at all, i appreciate your advice it will give me a good start on checking and correcting the camber.

I plan on going with bilstein shocks the stock ones are toast.
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