C4 Tech/Performance L98 Corvette and LT1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine

Intake removed, what else should I tackle

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Old Dec 2, 2012 | 10:29 AM
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Default Intake removed, what else should I tackle

I've removed the intake , crossfire tb's, and valve covers.

Have ported the intake and bored the tbs to 2"

My next step is to clean all the old gasket material and take my shop vac to the little nooks and crannys that are impossible to get to when the intake is in place.

Since this is all off, is there something else I should check? Don't really want to do any more mods...like a different cam ...at this time. But since I have it off and the modified intakes and crossfire ready to go back on....what else should I do?

I have a question about putting the AIR pump back on but will save that for another post.
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Old Dec 2, 2012 | 02:22 PM
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I'd consider replacing ANY other wear parts that are now accessable...

lifters
push rods
rockers (1.6:1?) good upgrade
port match intake gasket to intake manifold and note head port alignment (since heads are installed) Because in some cases you can trim the gasket to make the match better at the head. Grind the intake, but do the gasket for the head side, if it will help.

IMHO, never pass an opportunity to do some work when an isolated area suddenly becomes accessable. You won;t get a chance at the lifters again unless you d/c the top end, so why not do it now while its already apart? If the engine has some miles...its due whether its making noises or not. Push rods too..the ends wear and get flatened. new ones are dirt cheap and HD sets are not that much more. Rockers? why not? cheaper and easier than a cam. Gets you the same effect as a higher lift intake. $300 will get you in there with nice stuff.
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Old Dec 2, 2012 | 02:43 PM
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I've already port matched the intake to the gasket as this is a nice free mod for the crossfire.
Also opened up the restrictions inside the intake and bored the throttle bodies to 2"

The rockers and rods are a good idea.

Is there a specific type I should use for the crossfire, or will the simple replacement of almost 20 year old parts be enough?

What about removing the AIR pump ? I have no smog check in this area and I just planted 14 trees in my yard.....so Mother Earth and I are cool.
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Old Dec 2, 2012 | 02:54 PM
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I wouldn't change the lifters (they should only be changed when you do a cam), rockers & push rods get plenty of oil. If the engine was maintained those parts will last along time.The thing I'd change is the stock timing set, the stock cam gear had a nylon gear that likes to strip out.
You'd also need a way of raising/lower your fuel pressure.
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Old Dec 2, 2012 | 06:20 PM
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No suggestions, just a question. Assuming that you do no more than your porting job, what HP and torque gains do you expect?
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Old Dec 2, 2012 | 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DBo
No suggestions, just a question. Assuming that you do no more than your porting job, what HP and torque gains do you expect?
I really don't know....never really cared. I just like tinkering and I saw the work that the incredible Mr. Simpson did over at another forum. Do a search for simpson36 over at D.C. And you'll get step by step instructions. Or do search for cubestudio and crossfire.


And I've already jacked up my fuel pressure to 15 lbs.
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Old Dec 2, 2012 | 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ex-x-fire
I wouldn't change the lifters (they should only be changed when you do a cam), rockers & push rods get plenty of oil. If the engine was maintained those parts will last along time.The thing I'd change is the stock timing set, the stock cam gear had a nylon gear that likes to strip out.
X2.

Don't go changing parts just for the sake of changing parts. Depending on the mileage, I agree that the timing set IS a part that is known for wearing out. Rockers, push rods, lifters...not so much.

As for what else to do, I just make SURE that you ported the intake. Now I know you said you "ported" the intake, but from what I've seen, most CF "porters" port MATCH the end of the runner to the head. That helps, but that's not a ported intake. The runners are pretty thick and if your fully port the floor, walls and ceiling, you can increase the cross section quite a lot. The resulting increase in power and RPM range is huge (for a single mod, AND for the $$), and should get you as fast as the fastest STOCK TPI cars, easily.

Other things you might consider while in there? Maybe eliminating or modifying the "swirl plates". I eliminated mine (and radiused the bottom of the lid and TB bores)...others trim them dramatically.

Last edited by Tom400CFI; Dec 3, 2012 at 12:04 AM.
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Old Dec 3, 2012 | 12:54 AM
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As for what else to do, I just make SURE that you ported the intake. Now I know you said you "ported" the intake, but from what I've seen, most CF "porters" port MATCH the end of the runner to the head. That helps, but that's not a ported intake. The runners are pretty thick and if your fully port the floor, walls and ceiling, you can increase the cross section quite a lot. The resulting increase in power and RPM range is huge (for a single mod, AND for the $$), and should get you as fast as the fastest STOCK TPI cars, easily.
I got inside the ports as deep as a 6" long burr made for aluminum would let me.

So what is the purpose of the swirl plates and what happens if you eliminate them?
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Old Dec 3, 2012 | 11:00 AM
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If you go to a hardware store (HD/Lowes, etc) and get a "drill bit extension" you can reach all the way through the ports and get pretty much everything. PITA, but worth it, IMO. I used a piece of 1/2" pipe as a "bearing"/support for the long grinding assy. It got hot, even with grease in there, so I wore a leather glove.

Purpose of the "swirl plates" is to help with fuel distribution in the plenum, and mitigate fuel puddling on the plenum floor.

How important is it? Not. They are there to meet criteria that we don't care about...be it emissions (OEM's have to meet much stricter criteria than we do at the local check station), drivability in extreme conditions or something else. When I removed mine, I was living in Park City, UT. The negative effects were only noticeable when starting cold, below 10*F, and for about 60 seconds. After that, it ran exactly the same as before removing them (except faster lol).

When I removed mine, I was studying the underside of the lid; the "outlet" of the TB's into the plenum, if you will. I saw two things that bothered me;
1. the underside of the plenum lid had a little "step" in it that actually lowered the outlet point of the TB's into the plenum area.
2. The diameter of the TB bore (as you know) starts wide, narrows and remains "narrow" to the opening to the plenum.

To me, these thing conspired to accelerate and "Slam" the A/F mix into the floor of the plenum (in the absence of the swirl plates). The swirl plates, themselves, lower the exit of the TB bores, another 1/2" down into the plenum. My feeling is that you want that A/F mix to spread/distribute at as high an elevation as possible, to be homogenous when it reaches the mouths of the runners. Imagine if the plenum was 2' tall and the lid was bolted on to that; I feel the mixture would be incredibly evenly mixed by the time it made it down to the runner mouths. But the stock design puts the outlet of the TB's below the roofs of the runners, which the mix then has to get over, to get to the mouths of some runners. Anyway, I wanted "elevation" and time/reduced speed to spread the mix out in the plenum. That was MY philosophy. I bolted my TB's to the plenum lid and flipped it over and used my die grinder to radius the exit of the TB holes in the lid, extending up into the TB's slightly. Then I used a hone to make it smooth, drawing it in and out as it spun, smoothing my grinding and leaving a nice, symmetric transition. It basically mimics the mouth of the TB -like the mouth of a velocity stack. My thinking was that it would allow the mix to slow and spread, as it entered the plenum, rather than being "shot" straight toward the floor.

Did it work? I didn't do that "mod" isolated; I did it with the ported intake, bored TB's (2.09" in my case), blended TB bore to inlet, raised injector towers, fuel pump and other changes. But I have evidence that it certainly didn't HURT anything;
1. Stock like, smooth idle (even with a 224/234 cam in a 400)
2. good fuel economy (24 hwy average with a peak of 25 mpg)
3. reasonably even plug readings -as good as I saw on the stock 305 anyway.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by Tom400CFI; Dec 3, 2012 at 11:12 AM.
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Old Dec 3, 2012 | 11:04 AM
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how high and how did you raise the injectors?
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Old Dec 3, 2012 | 11:20 AM
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I only raised them about 1/8" and that was accomplished by simply adding an extra gasket under the injector tower. You might be able to squeeze one more in there, but at some point, the fuel fittings on the bottom of the tower, which stick out under the TB/filter flange will hit the underside of that flange and not allow you to go any higher.
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Old Dec 3, 2012 | 11:37 AM
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Ok, so a recap....here is the plan...and yes, it is open for comments.

1. removed crossfire intake, bored TB's to 2"...new butterfly's, bushings, etc.
2. changed fuel pump to 85 style, made fuel regulator adjustable and set to 16psi.
3. port matched intake to felpro gasket.
4. ground out intake as far as I could reach, removed restrictions inside intake, and used JB Weld putty to plug up holes for EGR.
5. removed EGR system and covered with plate on intake cover.

to be done....

6. will remove AIR pump and related pipes, shorten serpentine belt to accomodate, plug up holes left by AIR system.
7. will replace timing chain, gears, oil seal...and may even add a fancy cover.
8. will check the valve clearances per the FSM, but will not alter the rollers at this time.
9. will probably paint the magnesium valve covers the same color I painted the magnesium crossfire cover....it worked out well.
10. After reassembly, I will set timing and balance the TBs using manometer.
11. May just knock out my catalytic converter while I'm at it...hell all the other environmental stuff has been removed....and I just planted a bunch of trees.
12. will open a beer and wait for a warm day to take it out on the road.

anything else?
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Old Dec 3, 2012 | 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by The Plastic Lizard
8. will check the valve clearances per the FSM, but will not alter the rollers at this time.
Don't need to unless there was a valve "tick" when you were running it. Valves are "self adjusting (hydraulic lifters)



Originally Posted by The Plastic Lizard
10. After reassembly, I will set timing and balance the TBs using manometer.
WOn't be able to use a manometer after boring. You can use a feeler gauge slipped in between the throttle blades and bores and get it "close enough". Another way is to remove the throttle stop and adjust so both throttle blades are fully closed/bound in the bores at the same time, then re-set your minimum air (throttle stop). Either way is good enough.
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Old Dec 3, 2012 | 01:42 PM
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Won't be able to use a manometer after boring. You can use a feeler gauge slipped in between the throttle blades and bores and get it "close enough". Another way is to remove the throttle stop and adjust so both throttle blades are fully closed/bound in the bores at the same time, then re-set your minimum air (throttle stop). Either way is good enough.
I can't see why the manometer wouldn't work...unless you opened yours up so much that you dug into the balancing port.

Can you provide some more details on that?
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Old Dec 3, 2012 | 08:22 PM
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Yes. I did. I believe that you did too, if you went to 2". If you avoided that, then the water manometer will still work.
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Old Dec 4, 2012 | 02:37 PM
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nope, 2" will not cut into the balancing chambers. If you go bigger than that I have seen where you can put in a thin sleeve. That will allow you to go up to 2.4" I think.
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