i will try that tomorrow....... but now I have the distributor back the way it was between 1 and 8 if I move the distributor one tooth clock wise . isnt that going to be to far away from number one cylinder wire??????'

 

The only way to be sure is to remove the rocker cover rotate the engine and watch the intake valve open and close, then when the piston is at top dead center the distributor should be as in your picture no 1. then confirm the exhaust valve opens as you rotate the engine further that will confirm your timing is ok.

 

Yeah it would be but we are trying to find out if it will fire up in that position, that will tell us the cam timing is wrong if it does fire up with the distributor pointing to no 8 your cam timing is wrong ( the rotor should point between 1 and 8 at tdc as your first picture) even with the dist in pic 2 it should fire but the distributor cap (electrical connector block) be almost touching the firewall and not being able to advance it enough.

 

And were back to the first post. Running 30* advance, which tells me the cam is off.

Has this car ran right since you've owned it? h

 

I will try the new setting tomorrow. since is night time here and kind of late.

thank for all the advice i will report back tomorrow. with mi findings

 

Yeah taking the rocker cover off and checking the inlet valve opens and closes then when the piston is at top dead center the engine will normally fire with the distributor in either the first pic or second. The first pic is correct that is how my distributor is.

There may be a problem with the outer ring on the harmonic ballancer having slipped or the cam timing, the next post if it will fire with the rotor button at no 8 will confirm cam timing at fault.

That will explain why he has been having so many issues and hopefully be able to fix it once and for all

 

just for the record. the harmonic balancer i change my self about year ago. the car haven move much since them. so i can say i have a new harmonic on the car.
talk to you all tomorrow

 

While trying to get the base idle correct he could not get the adjustment to 6 deg btdc and it would also backfire ,so far the TPS volts are good .
The stalling at idle is a symptom of retarded ignition hence the distributor position. Once that is right and he can get the base idle set at 400 rpm it will be ok.
But looks like the cam or distributor timing is out
Tommorrow we should find out, as you should be able to run the car with distributor in either pic but run out of room advance in pic 2

 

What he said. h

 

If the car refuses to run at 6*btdc, what difference is it going to make if the rotor is moved one or two or three teeth either direction? The cap simply is moved the same direction as the rotor and with timing set at 6* will still backfire. Again, the cap follows the rotor. You can move the distributor gear in relation to the cam gear 90*. If you spin the cap 90* you are back where you started. You can get 6* with the rotor pointed toward the front of the car or with the rotor pointed toward the rear of the car or anywhere in between.

 

What was the reason for the new hb? Has the car ever ran right since you've owned it? Is it the original cam? Chevrolet had cam issues in the mid to late 80's. (some went flat at 20k) I personally would pull the cover and check the cam. h

 

the old hatmonic was loose and damege i can post pics later the car never had run right since i had it .

 

That might explain things. Your balancer is wack and all your timing markings are off. For the time being, keep advancing the timing greater than 10 degrees until you hear some detonation, then back off 2 degrees or so.

 

Balancer is new. h

 

this is my old harmonic balancer.
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I did not had a chance to go down to the car and do the distributor. to much work today. but tomorrow afternoon I will preform the test and report back

 

That is why we are doing the basics at the moment, tps volts and setting base idle and distributor with timing light to 6 deg before top dead center which he has not been able to do. Without that being done she will never run right as the ecm needs that to be correct for it to manage the engine operation, the engine has also been backfiring so we suspect the distributor is in the wrong position or the cam timing wrong.

I have had my engine running with the distributor as pic 1 or 2 at top dead center, the engine will run in both positions as there is a fair bit of adjustment. But the electrical connector block on distributor cap when set to 6 deg before top dead center will be 90 deg pointing to driver side as in pic one position, and in pic 2 position the electrical connector block on the distributor cap will almost hit the firewall at 6 deg btdc.

As she wont start with distributor in pic 2 it looks like the cam is not indexed right or the timing mark on top dead center is not on the compression stroke.

So far the TPS has been sorted but the timing has not been anywhere near 6 deg btdc. Once that is sorted and he can get the 400 rpm in drive (when dash shows the rpm) she should fire right up hot or cold and have no issue with stalling when putting in gear (which it is doing from around 1,000 rpm that is the lowest he can get it to idle).

By rotating the engine and watching the intake valve open and close, the compression stroke is next and top dead center the distributor as in pic 1 or pic 2 will work. Then double check the exhaust valve opens the next turn of the crankshaft.

When the above is done we will know the distributor is in the right spot and if the cam timing is out the inlet or exhaust valve may not be fully closed at top dead center.

So Hitmanpty double check both the inlet valve opens when the piston is on the downward stroke and closes before the piston goes up on the compression stroke. Then double check the inlet and exhaust valves are closed at top dead center on compression stroke, that will determine if the cam timing is right. then when rotating the engine the piston goes down and the exhaust valve will open when the piston is on the way back up.

Good luck Hitmanpty

 

I think you might do well to check a couple of critical items before worrying with where the distributor is positioned. I would confirm that the timing mark on the new balancer is, in fact indicating top dead center. Chevy has used several different front cover timing tab locations through the years and as a result the position of the timing mark on the balancer with respect to the keyway slot in the balancer hub is different. If your balancer doesn't match your front cover timing tab location, all timing measurements are going to be off. If you discover the balancer mark is in the wrong place, you can use a piston stop bolt and measuring tape to find the correct location. A new mark can be made with a few strokes with a hacksaw blade. Once you have verified the validity of the timing mark on the balancer (or established a correct reference mark) then check the centerline of the camshaft intake lobe to confirm that the timing chain is properly indexed. Since the cam in the engine is an unknown to you (in other words, you probably don't know if it is stock or aftermarket), you can only check for gross errors. If the intake lobe centerline is not between 104° and 108° with respect to top dead center, then the cam chain is off by a tooth or more. Since the engine is in the car, using a degree wheel isn't an option, so measure your balancer diameter, multiply the diameter times Pi (3.14159) and divide the result by 360°. This will give you linear inches (or mm) per degree. For example, for a 6" balancer, 6*3.14159/360 = ~.0567 inch per degree. Therefore, a 106° intake lobe centerline would be .0567*106 = 5.55" circumferencial distance from the top dead center mark on the balancer. You can put a piece of masking tape on the balancer and mark reference spots on the tape with a pencil. "Google Camshaft Installation and Degreeing" for detailed instructions on howw to verify your timing mark and measure cam lobe centerlines. Comp cams has an excellent PDF you can download. A seamstress cloth tape measure can be used to measure distances in the balancer circumference.

 

OK.......

 

with just Bob; but i think this is very confusing to the OP(with the language barrier) lets assume the cam is installed correctly. the motor does run. Now, he did say he replaced the balancer,which by the pics its an obvious reason. was it replaced with an 8 inch or 7 inch. OP measure your original and compare to new. If the same you should be ok there. Now for simplicity,pull #1 plug,furthest forward on drivers side. hold your finger over the plug hole,and turn the motor over till you can feel the compression pushing your finger off the plug hole. thats on the compression stroke. Now turn the motor over slowly till the piston comes all the way to the top and starts back down. the second it starts back down,you have just passed top dead center. now look at your timing marks on the harmonic balancer,if correct,it should show to be within just a few degrees of top dead center . 0 degrees on the balancer to the timing tab. if this is not correct,theres your timing problem to obtaining 6 degrees. i would start here before doing anything else. If the timing marks line up to be even close to top dead center,you should be able to time the motor to 6 degrees. the motor should run fine with the timing set anywhere from 6 to 12 degrees. i run my 84 at 10 degrees. once the timing is set anywhere from 6 to 10 degrees go ahead and make your other adjustments. this was just my way of saying and affirming your timing marks are correct on the balancer to timing tab. everything i have read about your problems it sounds to me that your initial timing is retarded . good luck I admirer your persistence. You have alot of patience.