I am doing an engine swap on my 1985 vette.

First off I want to say thank you guys for all the help, I feel like I have been having some bad luck with it, swapped a bunch of stuff that was probably needing to be done, but I ha a mechanic look at it and I think I'll be needing a new engine.

Found a good running used one for $400, 350 crate that was used in a boat for 400 hours according to the PO. My guy is doing the engine swap for me for $200 so I can't complain.

My Questions:
What else should I do while the engine is out?
I'm thinking a timing chain/water pump would be a good idea. Have some steering suspension issues that are probably easier to fix/replace parts with the engine out.

Am I doing it wrong, should I just cut my losses at this point?
155k miles on the car.

 

If it were I, I would do a water pump for sure. I did one with the engine in the car and afterward, thought it would have been easier to pull the engine. I had head gasket issues as well which would have been much easier with the engine out. Good luck with the project...it should be worth all the trouble.

 

If the engine was in a boat and it was a bonafide marine engine, then it is going to have a marine, or "RV" cam in it. If it was an automotive crate engine that was done correctly, again it will have a marine or RV cam in it. Either way, a marine cam is not a good match in a lightweight car with performance gear ratios in the trans and rearend. I'd degree the cam and see what is in there and swap it out if needed.

If, on the other hand the engine had an automotive came in it, then it had a challenging life,being run with more throttle, trying to make torque and push the boat. Either way, 400 hours in a boat is a lot of use, especially if spread over 10 or 15 years. Cruising down the river at 35mph is equivelant to climbing a steep hill in high gear in a truck.

Hopefully, if the engine received good periodic maintenance, with the right cam you will get some good miles out of the swap.

 

Good point. If it doesn't have brass freeze plugs, then definitely replace the steel plugs, especially if the boat was used in salt or brackish water.

 

Could I swap with the cam in my current engine? Might be a stupid question sorry I'm a rookie. But I also have a 4 Bolt 350 tat a decent price, I'm gonna go over with my mechanic friend and make a decision I think, maybe these links of what I'm looking at will help will help:

http://macon.craigslist.org/pts/3808839532.html - Crate 350 that was put in a boat.

http://macon.craigslist.org/pts/3827957125.html

 

I don't agree with any of this. most boat engines operate in the same RPM ranges as cars (0-5500 RPM), and certainly, if the OP has TPI...the thing runs at even lower RPM than the boat! A "marine cam" is no deal breaker and can/will work fine. In fact an example that was extremely successful was the '82-'84 Ford Mustang 5.0, which uses a Ford "Marine" cam grind with 210/210 duration. -Motor Trend March 2010: "The camshaft profile for the 302 HO engine was taken directly from the company's marine parts bin for more lift, duration and overlap time." Specs were 260/274 duration (seat to seat) and 416"/444" lift....well in line with any stock cam for a '80's car engine. In short, my point is that there isn't a meaningful difference between a "marine cam" and a "car cam" of that era.


Second, 400 hours on a well maintained boat engine is not a lot of use. Engine with proper maintenance should go well past 3000 hours....and "spread over years" doesn't mean anything either. IDK where this is coming from. My boat ('92 Mastercraft) is obviously 21 years old and has 850 hours on it. It runs absolutely, like brand new, and oil samples are perfect. It is no where near

 

Good luck with the swap. I'm building a replacement engine for my 85, but I'm using the same casting number the 85 C4 came with.

Definitely replace the water pump and all the freeze plugs. Personally, I'd replace the cam with one with the stock cam profile to avoid any ECM problems (the stock profile is 202 intake / 206 exhaust, 114.5 degrees lobe separation (at .50 lobe lift)). I take it you're going to reuse the stock TPI and exhaust, correct?

 

That is the plan, might take out the cats and put in straight pipes while I have the cheap help.

Any cleaning tips for the TPI components while I have it off would be appreciated.

 

When I did my injectors, I sent the intake plenum and runners out to the local machine shop to be "boiled" and bead blasted. They came out looking like new and all the carbon was gone. I think I paid $50 for all 3 pieces. I painted them all with high heat silver paint to match the valve covers that were just painted as well. Its been 5 years now and it's held up.

With 155K on the original engine, how are the injectors? If they're original, talk to Jon at FIC about replacing them with a set of Bosch III's. It would also be a good idea to replace the EGR valve but be careful of the temperatue sensor that's screwed into its base, they're expensive and hard to find. Also, I wanted to ask, do you know what the compression is on your replacement engine? Depending on what it is may affect the head gasket you need.

 

Wrong. Comparing a short stroke Ford to a chevy 350 is apples and oranges. Mercruiser recommends propping a 350 Chevy to top out a 4800 rpm. Putting an automotive crate engine in a boat without changing the cam will force you to go down 2 inches or more in prop pitch to spin 4800rpm. No, I haven't experienced a marine cam in a car first hand, but it is probably a reasonable assumption to think a marine cam in a car is less than optimal.

I agree fully, based on your caveat of "well maintained". Problem is, when it comes to recreational boats, well maintained is the exception, not the rule. Lots of boats spend 90% of the time on the trailer, out in the backyard in the weather. Oil gets changed every other season at best, and the block gets drained and flushed once every 1 to 5 years. After the first season of newness wears off, every simi annual trip out is on stale gas. Many of the used marine engines I see advertised were salvaged out of hulls that were so poorly maintained that they were not seaworthy. It's safe to assume the engines were neglected just like the rest of the boat. I am not trying to scare the OP, but I have seen plenty of 400 to 500 hour boat engines that were on their last leg due to poor maintenance.

 

The injectors are not stock, they are bosch but I'm not sure which exact model, I will keep that in mind, but I'm trying to limit the money I put in for now since I am not sure I keeping this one since I just bought a nicer 78 vette, but hell I can afford it and I'm still young and single lol but it just decent seem the most responsible on my part, still on the fence about it.

I had an EGR valve code as the last one I hadn't fixed before the engine went, so that would be good to do.

Add says:
"Compression good when engine was removed, 120-130 on all cylinders."

 

Not wrong, b/c I wasn't comparing Fords to Chevy's of suggesting that one put Ford marine cams in Chevy cars. I was simply showing an example of where a OEM used a "marine cam" in a car (and it worked), BECAUSE of how similar the specs are. So similar that they won't make a meaningful difference...and they won't. The "Marine" cam will work fine, because there is hardly any difference between that and a stock OEM auto cam.

Additionally, you cited a 'Mercruiser". They've used many different operating configurations. In addition, a TPI takes a dump at ~4500 anyway...so what's wrong with this hypothetical "marine cam" that you claim (none of us knows WHAT cam it really has) peaks at 4800?



Where are you coming up with your marine maintenance "stats"??

Of all the boaters that *I* know (at least 5 of my friends have 'em), they all do pretty disciplined maintenance on their boats (and store them inside). While I "get" that not everyone takes that level of care of their boats....this is no different than with cars and buying used car motors for a car. There are neglected boats, there are neglected cars. Again, the "marine" word in front of this used motor shouldn't be a deal breaker.

We don't know what cam is in it...we don't know how it was taken car of. Same as is the case with most used motor purchases. The "marine" component here is not meaningful.

 

That says nothing about the ratio , just that the internals are even.

Stock compression for the 85 was 9.0:1, the later C4's were upwards of that. Being this engine came out of a boat, the compression maybe lower than 9.0:1, I know some crate motors are 8.5:1. If you want the performance to be at least what came from the factory, the magic number to achieve is 9:1. You can figure out what the compression is online if you know certain factors like Cylinder Head Volume, Effective Dome Volume and Deck Clearance. The variable in your case would be the Compressed Gasket Thickness. That's where you can raise or lower the ratio some. Do you have the casting number of the cylinder heads you're using? We might be able to get the Cylinder Head Volume by doing an online search or someone here might know off-hand. Then you can figure out which head gasket to have installed.

 

Thanks I haven't even looked at the engine yet, but I will try to get all this info and do some research before I take a chance with it. To be honest, if it is running steady, I am ok with a lower compression ratio, the faster the car the more trouble I get into haha..that being said I wouldn't turn it down, if I knew I was keeping the car for sure I might do something else. Speaking of which, saw a brand new LT1 350HP 350 still in the crate, could probably talk seller down to for $1500 I am really tempted to get.

 

one word: don't

 

Can you please explain.

 

you will find a marine cam/rv cam is very similar to what most companies refer to as a mild street cam. I never recommend changing cams without knowing the valve train combination, especially the valve springs. That motor should give you a nice low end torque curve and be fun at speeds. It wouldn't hurt to pull the intake and look around to make sure no water has been through the oil areas or even corrosion. Definitely get rid of the steel freeze plugs, although I haven't seen those used in a long time. When you swap the waterpump, look in the coolant runners to see if there is any debri or excessive corrosion. Other than that, you should be rockin and rollin in no time! Good Luck with the swap.

 

Thank you! I'm not set on that one yet but $600 with the swap and I'd be up and running again, that's definitely a nice thought

 

the LT based engines use a different fuel injectin set up and since they are reverse cooling engines, you cannot just swap over the earlier intake manifold and injectors onto an LT short block; if you did decide to do an LT swap it would have to include wiring harness and ECU...and it can be done but the complexity and costs go up expotentially. And when you buy into the LT family of engines, gone is the conventional distributor and water pump which are replaced by a very expensive Opti Spark along with a new style and expensive water pump. None of these hurtles are insurmountable, but for what you want, at a price similiar to the LT, a good proven crate engine would be the way to go.

the small potatoes is that any 1986 or later engine is going to have a one piece rear crankshaft seal as versus a two piece rear main seal on an 85...so that means a new pan and a new flywheel or flexplate.

 

Found a nice used goodwrench 350 also, would this cause unnecessary complications in a swap?