a little advice please!!
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 60
From: ft myers FL/Munising MI
a little advice please!!
getting ready to call jon regarding the bosch3 injectors for my 85..while i've got it torn down, 117,000...I'm going to change the egr and fpr....i've been looking at the adjustable, seems to be a great variance in prices....and if i understand it right, they don't include the diapragm and spring...looks like tpis has a good one, but i'll have to get the diapragm separately right???...
also, i don't want to get carried away with mods, but one of the runners has a slight ding in it,,,,i see they have bigger/better fuel runners....are they worth the 400 bucks?..
lastly, is there anything else I should consider changing while it's stripped down?? I'm a working stiff, but i'll get what I need to make it right....pushing retirement back now.....
also, i don't want to get carried away with mods, but one of the runners has a slight ding in it,,,,i see they have bigger/better fuel runners....are they worth the 400 bucks?..
lastly, is there anything else I should consider changing while it's stripped down?? I'm a working stiff, but i'll get what I need to make it right....pushing retirement back now.....
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,082
Likes: 3
From: Conowingo Maryland
you may gain a little if you change runners but not much on a stock engine. So my answer to that would be no. I also do not think a agj FPR is need for what you are doing. I would check everthing you can see now while it is apart hoses conections ect. If the stat has not been changed I would change it and the upper hose if not new. just a real good look over
Drifting
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,736
Likes: 31
From: Reno Nevada
Sometimes you can push a ball down through the runner to straighten out the dent. Can't remember the size? TPIS is the best adjustable cap in my opinion. I wouldn't replace the diaphragm until it goes bad. Why take a good USA product and replace with lesser quality.
Honestly, I'd just buy Jon's 280-155-715 Ford blue's as direct replacements. They're just slightly bigger than stock and work with without an adjustable cap on the 85.
Honestly, I'd just buy Jon's 280-155-715 Ford blue's as direct replacements. They're just slightly bigger than stock and work with without an adjustable cap on the 85.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 60
From: ft myers FL/Munising MI
Sometimes you can push a ball down through the runner to straighten out the dent. Can't remember the size? TPIS is the best adjustable cap in my opinion. I wouldn't replace the diaphragm until it goes bad. Why take a good USA product and replace with lesser quality.
Honestly, I'd just buy Jon's 280-155-715 Ford blue's as direct replacements. They're just slightly bigger than stock and work with without an adjustable cap on the 85.
Honestly, I'd just buy Jon's 280-155-715 Ford blue's as direct replacements. They're just slightly bigger than stock and work with without an adjustable cap on the 85.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,660
Likes: 22
If you want to make a positive difference and upgrade, start with the exhaust and you WILL feel a difference and establish a base for other mods down the road. There is nothing that can be done to help the stock engine until the exhaust is fixed....that is the single biggest problem the stock engine has. NEXT would be the runners and intake. No point in feeding it until it has an exit....
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,475
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From: Kingman AZ
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Unless you have a huge budget you would best served by doing a good tuneup and making sure the car is running good before doing any mods. Plugs, wires, cap, rotor etc. Then flush and refill the fluids and clean out the junk that is lodged between your radiator and ac condenser.
The TPI unit is restrictive and so is the exhaust. In order to get a performance boost you need better cam, heads,ignition, intake and exhaust along with rocker arms etc. It gets expensive.
Do a Google search for Vader86 as he has a nice website about the "Dark Side" that will tell you what works and what does not.
The TPI unit is restrictive and so is the exhaust. In order to get a performance boost you need better cam, heads,ignition, intake and exhaust along with rocker arms etc. It gets expensive.
Do a Google search for Vader86 as he has a nice website about the "Dark Side" that will tell you what works and what does not.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,752
Likes: 276
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
If you want to make a positive difference and upgrade, start with the exhaust and you WILL feel a difference and establish a base for other mods down the road. There is nothing that can be done to help the stock engine until the exhaust is fixed....that is the single biggest problem the stock engine has. NEXT would be the runners and intake. No point in feeding it until it has an exit....
Good long tube headers will knock around half a second of your quarter mile time, Yes replace the fuel pump diaphragm this is critical if the diaghragm tears or splits it will send fuel at pressure thru the vacuum hose to the engine. If the tear is big enough it can force the vacuum hose of the fuel pressure regulator and spray fuel onto your exhaust..
You can modify your stock fuel pressure regulator, when its disassembled drill a small hole in the top cover and tap a thread then insert a screw with a spring to stop it moving. TPI's love more fuel pressure 45 psi is a sweet spot, however if you need emissions testing it can fail with rich idle so set back to standard pressure beforehand.
Remember with Bosch 111 injectors use two O rings at the bottom and one on top of each injector, the bosch injectors are small and do not rest on the manifold like standard ones. The fuel pressure can force the injector down causing a leak at the fuel rail / injector.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,973
Likes: 341
From: Adelaide South Australia
the Bosch 3 24 lb injectors from Jon work well in the '85 and will freshen things up,
i got an anodized adjustable reg and new diaphragm from south bay fuel injectors, $70 for both, but if you get an adjustable reg you will also have to buy a fuel pressure gauge to be able to adjust it,
I wouldnt worry about the runner upgrade till you have more mods, as the other guys have stated, the exhaust is a better place to start.
i got an anodized adjustable reg and new diaphragm from south bay fuel injectors, $70 for both, but if you get an adjustable reg you will also have to buy a fuel pressure gauge to be able to adjust it,
I wouldnt worry about the runner upgrade till you have more mods, as the other guys have stated, the exhaust is a better place to start.
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Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,660
Likes: 22
[QUOTE=gerardvg;1584779585]
Good long tube headers will knock around half a second of your quarter mile time, Yes replace the fuel pump diaphragm this is critical if the diaghragm tears or splits it will send fuel at pressure thru the vacuum hose to the engine. If the tear is big enough it can force the vacuum hose of the fuel pressure regulator and spray fuel onto your exhaust..
Had it happen ! mine was due to a shorted injector that caused that bank to be stuck WFO....
Battled the engine (no start) all morning and it finally fired...
I had to force-feed it throttle to keep it running when I saw the LIQUID BLOWING out the exhaust pipes....got out to see WTF and realized it was RAW GAS !
We were IN my garage so the fumes were thick enough to swim in...nice! Gonna loose my CAR and house together...good job !
I haven't had a panic attack like that since I had 2 UC detectives pull me over with their guns drawn....( caused I passed them at 100mph on a public street in Ca)
Must have been 2 gal in the pan, and God knows how much in the exhaust. Took me days to get it cleaned up and around 4 or 5 oil changes.
Good long tube headers will knock around half a second of your quarter mile time, Yes replace the fuel pump diaphragm this is critical if the diaghragm tears or splits it will send fuel at pressure thru the vacuum hose to the engine. If the tear is big enough it can force the vacuum hose of the fuel pressure regulator and spray fuel onto your exhaust..
Had it happen ! mine was due to a shorted injector that caused that bank to be stuck WFO....
Battled the engine (no start) all morning and it finally fired...
I had to force-feed it throttle to keep it running when I saw the LIQUID BLOWING out the exhaust pipes....got out to see WTF and realized it was RAW GAS !
We were IN my garage so the fumes were thick enough to swim in...nice! Gonna loose my CAR and house together...good job !I haven't had a panic attack like that since I had 2 UC detectives pull me over with their guns drawn....( caused I passed them at 100mph on a public street in Ca)
Must have been 2 gal in the pan, and God knows how much in the exhaust. Took me days to get it cleaned up and around 4 or 5 oil changes.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 60
From: ft myers FL/Munising MI
your advice is great....so you all know.....I have changed the radiator, new plugs /wires/cap/ rotor/ exhaust has been worked on, installed muffler eliminators/ going to put the x pipe on next....had it running really smooth, but now all of a sudden, a little rough idle has occurred, almost sounds like it's missing a little at idle....going to check the timing, but since I have 100,000 + miles, I figured a new set of injectors, and egr may solve it anyway....put the vortex rammer in it,..for more air....kinda cheesy, but it seems like it works ok....idle for some reason is low, 540/550/ rpm....was running soothly at 600..runs too crappy at idle to reset it per the fsm...checked tps...54v ..I figured with the rammer and exhaust, bigger runners might help some...don't want to get too far away from stock... i'd prefer it was running great before I tore it down but whatever......
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 10,036
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From: Anaheim CA
Battled the engine (no start) all morning and it finally fired...
I had to force-feed it throttle to keep it running
Ruptured fuel pressure regulator diaphragm:
Last edited by Cliff Harris; Aug 29, 2013 at 02:25 AM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 60
From: ft myers FL/Munising MI
Those symptoms are painfully familiar. I went out to lunch at my favorite restaurant and when I tried to start the car it didn't want to run. I kept cranking it until I noticed smoke coming out from the back of the hood and coming up in front of the windshield. Then I saw FLAMES there. I got out of the car and opened the hood and there were flames coming out from under both sides of the plenum. The whole top of the intake manifold was a lake of burning fuel, which was running off the front and back and there was a puddle of burning fuel under the car. Fortunately I had a fire extinguisher from the days when I used to autocross this car...
Ruptured fuel pressure regulator diaphragm:
Ruptured fuel pressure regulator diaphragm:
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 60
From: ft myers FL/Munising MI
Sometimes you can push a ball down through the runner to straighten out the dent. Can't remember the size? TPIS is the best adjustable cap in my opinion. I wouldn't replace the diaphragm until it goes bad. Why take a good USA product and replace with lesser quality.
Honestly, I'd just buy Jon's 280-155-715 Ford blue's as direct replacements. They're just slightly bigger than stock and work with without an adjustable cap on the 85.
Honestly, I'd just buy Jon's 280-155-715 Ford blue's as direct replacements. They're just slightly bigger than stock and work with without an adjustable cap on the 85.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,616
Likes: 111
I think so; I know you don't need 24's on a stock 85; I am running 24's with an adjustable fuel pressure reg. but I am far from stock and the 24 Bosch's work great on mine; I would say 22's would work just fine on a stock 85, no problem.
Drifting
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,736
Likes: 31
From: Reno Nevada
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280150223.jpg
252 cc is 24 lbs
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280155715.jpg
This is what Jon's flow.
Scott
Last edited by MrWillys; Aug 31, 2013 at 04:09 PM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 60
From: ft myers FL/Munising MI
GM used a Bosch 280-150-223 which is 23.8 lbs rated at 3 Bar or 43.5 psi. They installed them with a regulator at 39 psi, so they programmed them at 22.4 lbs. This lower pressure resulted in the lower output. If you buy Jon's Bosch III 280-155-715 it's rated at 24.3 bs at 43.5 psi. Therefore, you'll be getting a slight increase and won't need the adjustable cap, or diaphragm. Why fix something that ain't broke just cause it broke on someone else? Preventative with certain things is fine, but why rebuild your engine if it runs fine?
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280150223.jpg
252 cc is 24 lbs
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280155715.jpg
This is what Jon's flow.
Scott
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280150223.jpg
252 cc is 24 lbs
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280155715.jpg
This is what Jon's flow.
Scott
Drifting
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,736
Likes: 31
From: Reno Nevada
http://www.csgnetwork.com/fiflowcalc.html
Basically, injectors are rated at 43.5 psi (3 bar), but if installed at a lower pressure they flow less. I entered the 24.3 lb in the calculator with a new pressure of 39 psi and it came up with 23 lbs. This would be a slight increase over stock. If you put on an adjustable cap, and bumped pressure up to 43.5 you would have 24.3 lbs, and would need reprogramming.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 60
From: ft myers FL/Munising MI
Maybe this calculator will help you understand:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/fiflowcalc.html
Basically, injectors are rated at 43.5 psi (3 bar), but if installed at a lower pressure they flow less. I entered the 24.3 lb in the calculator with a new pressure of 39 psi and it came up with 23 lbs. This would be a slight increase over stock. If you put on an adjustable cap, and bumped pressure up to 43.5 you would have 24.3 lbs, and would need reprogramming.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/fiflowcalc.html
Basically, injectors are rated at 43.5 psi (3 bar), but if installed at a lower pressure they flow less. I entered the 24.3 lb in the calculator with a new pressure of 39 psi and it came up with 23 lbs. This would be a slight increase over stock. If you put on an adjustable cap, and bumped pressure up to 43.5 you would have 24.3 lbs, and would need reprogramming.