Update on head job
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 924
Likes: 0
From: Columbia South Carolina
Update on head job
Well,after waiting for over a month to learn about my 1987 heads which are in the machine shop,I found out this morning that "electrolysis" has eaten some of the aluminum and that one head will not seal 
. The machinist says he might be able to weld it . How badly am I screwed?
Thanks in advance for all positive responses.
tankman
. The machinist says he might be able to weld it . How badly am I screwed?Thanks in advance for all positive responses.
tankman
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,660
Likes: 22
I lost a head to electrolysis many yrs ago. Back in 1990 a bare head was $1100. Total repair at a shop was close to $2500....that was 1990.
YOU can buy a good head for $200 on FleaBay or from the sellers right HERE. Lots of stock heads for sale and NOT expensive either.
This is not the end of the world...just delays the assembly a couple weeks, that's all. You're good.
It was electrolysis that was causing your issues....
I'll never forget seeing my temp gauge shooting UP and then looking in the mirror sunday afternoon headed back to LA after a weekend in Palm Springs with an exceptionally good looking woman, and seeing that WHITE cloud following me....despite all HER efforts that was one of the worst weekends ever..
Start searching HERE and FleaBay. You will have a lead in minutes...
YOU can buy a good head for $200 on FleaBay or from the sellers right HERE. Lots of stock heads for sale and NOT expensive either.
This is not the end of the world...just delays the assembly a couple weeks, that's all. You're good.
It was electrolysis that was causing your issues....
I'll never forget seeing my temp gauge shooting UP and then looking in the mirror sunday afternoon headed back to LA after a weekend in Palm Springs with an exceptionally good looking woman, and seeing that WHITE cloud following me....despite all HER efforts that was one of the worst weekends ever..
Start searching HERE and FleaBay. You will have a lead in minutes...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 171
From: Dublin CA
Other heads available. Even with a used head that is in good shape it would not cost too much to have ti reconditioned. I think I would pass on the welding. It can be done with aluminum without too much of a problem by someone that is good at welding aluminum. I would be concerned with the coolant passages that you can't see.
So now you know exactly why the head was leaking. It pays to change the coolant every couple of years.
Drifting
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,736
Likes: 31
From: Reno Nevada
I'm going to assume the damage is on the deck surface? I'd have no problem welding this. It's done all the time.
You could buy these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-Performance-Parts-12556463-Chevy-ZZ4-Aluminum-Cylinder-Heads-2-New-In-Box-/331009332142?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d11b193ae&vxp=mtrExact same head with a slightly stiffer spring
You could buy these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-Performance-Parts-12556463-Chevy-ZZ4-Aluminum-Cylinder-Heads-2-New-In-Box-/331009332142?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d11b193ae&vxp=mtrExact same head with a slightly stiffer spring
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,839
Likes: 22
From: San Diego, Ca
They take a new style intake gasket with retainers to keep the gaskets in place which (per GM's Service Bulletin) is why your old ones got eaten up.
They were used on the '91 (sans LT4 springs), but finding those intake gaskets can be a challenge (one's with the flow restrictors at the rear), because they were only used on the '91 C4. You can get F Body or current intake gaskets that include the Retainers but don't have the Restrictors. Remove the bypass hose to the Intake if you take this route.
They were used on the '91 (sans LT4 springs), but finding those intake gaskets can be a challenge (one's with the flow restrictors at the rear), because they were only used on the '91 C4. You can get F Body or current intake gaskets that include the Retainers but don't have the Restrictors. Remove the bypass hose to the Intake if you take this route.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,758
Likes: 49
From: Houston Texas
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,839
Likes: 22
From: San Diego, Ca
I used them - the only difference was the end to a number of intake leaks and hopefully, no more blown/weeping head gaskets. You need a lot more than some LT4 springs and valves to change hp/tq. I don't know what the current cost is; I recall paying about $900 for a new pair from a local Dealer, sans gaskets and everything else you need. By the way, Chevy's Bulletin called for longer bolts on the outer intake holes to accommodate the gasket retainers - they're not available; even though they gave a part#. If you want them, you'll have to find a '91 junker and hope that they're there.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,344
Likes: 4,008
From: Texas
LS9 crate engine or a used transplant from a C6 ZR-1, then mix in some aero updates, new wheels, and a nice big brake kit. Top it all off with coilovers, sway bars, trailing arms, etc
$50k or so ought to cover parts and labor if the OP shops wisely.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 924
Likes: 0
From: Columbia South Carolina
I lost a head to electrolysis many yrs ago. Back in 1990 a bare head was $1100. Total repair at a shop was close to $2500....that was 1990.
YOU can buy a good head for $200 on FleaBay or from the sellers right HERE. Lots of stock heads for sale and NOT expensive either.
This is not the end of the world...just delays the assembly a couple weeks, that's all. You're good.
It was electrolysis that was causing your issues....
I'll never forget seeing my temp gauge shooting UP and then looking in the mirror sunday afternoon headed back to LA after a weekend in Palm Springs with an exceptionally good looking woman, and seeing that WHITE cloud following me....despite all HER efforts that was one of the worst weekends ever..
Start searching HERE and FleaBay. You will have a lead in minutes...
YOU can buy a good head for $200 on FleaBay or from the sellers right HERE. Lots of stock heads for sale and NOT expensive either.
This is not the end of the world...just delays the assembly a couple weeks, that's all. You're good.
It was electrolysis that was causing your issues....
I'll never forget seeing my temp gauge shooting UP and then looking in the mirror sunday afternoon headed back to LA after a weekend in Palm Springs with an exceptionally good looking woman, and seeing that WHITE cloud following me....despite all HER efforts that was one of the worst weekends ever..
Start searching HERE and FleaBay. You will have a lead in minutes...
.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,344
Likes: 4,008
From: Texas
My previous post aside, in all seriousness if this is a reputable shop, welding is not an issue. If you're nervous about it, ask them to warranty it against leakage and head gasket issues for a 12 months.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 924
Likes: 0
From: Columbia South Carolina
Thank you. I'm not nervous about it because I really have no idea about the pitfalls of welding.I don't want to put a lot of money into this 'vette because I don't think I'm going to be keeping it much longer. I'm leaning towards letting the machinist weld if I can't find a head for a reasonable price.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 171
From: Dublin CA
A good welder should be able to weld this up. The machine shop will then have to mill the head to make the area that was welded flat. You can weld aluminum heads not cast iron. Well not true...you can weld cast iron, but most don't know how and crack things even more than they were before.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 924
Likes: 0
From: Columbia South Carolina
A good welder should be able to weld this up. The machine shop will then have to mill the head to make the area that was welded flat. You can weld aluminum heads not cast iron. Well not true...you can weld cast iron, but most don't know how and crack things even more than they were before.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 171
From: Dublin CA
What they should do is grind out the part that the electrolysis has eaten away so they have a clean material surface to weld. Then they will build up the area with weld. The only real important part is the area of the head that needs to be flat. They will machine that to get a flat surface. I am assuming that the other area that was eaten was the water jacket area. If the weld flows into this area they can just take a die grinder and clean it up or even drill it if they have to. you can build up the aluminum and machine it down to where it has to be.
You just have to have a good experienced welder that can weld aluminum. That is the critical part. You have to heat the head as you weld to get the aluminum to flow and then use an aluminum rod to fill in the area to build it up. Get a in-experienced welder and you will have pits and a mess.
I am doing fine, thank you for asking. I know that you will get thru this fine and get the car back together without major issues. Leaning toward the 2004......nice.
You just have to have a good experienced welder that can weld aluminum. That is the critical part. You have to heat the head as you weld to get the aluminum to flow and then use an aluminum rod to fill in the area to build it up. Get a in-experienced welder and you will have pits and a mess.
I am doing fine, thank you for asking. I know that you will get thru this fine and get the car back together without major issues. Leaning toward the 2004......nice.
Last edited by John A. Marker; Sep 6, 2013 at 08:34 PM.
Drifting
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,736
Likes: 31
From: Reno Nevada
A good welder should be able to weld this up. The machine shop will then have to mill the head to make the area that was welded flat. You can weld aluminum heads not cast iron. Well not true...you can weld cast iron, but most don't know how and crack things even more than they were before.
Welding cast isn't that hard if you preheat it. I welded brackets to my diff's preheating with my torch. The NR-211 wire used in my Lincoln SP-135 has enough nickel to do it. I think aluminum is harder. My TPI intake base had to be welded at the waterjacket when I had it apart in 2010. Tech machine in Livermore did a wonderful job.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 171
From: Dublin CA
I didn't say that cast iron couldn't be welded, just most don't know how to do it so it doesn't crack as it cools back down. Like you did, you have to preheat the iron, weld and then very slowly cool the iron down. Some suggest that after you weld it you heat it with a torch again and pack dry sand around it.
Aluminum is not easy to weld, but with the right equipment and EXPERIENCE it can be done correctly. You can't apply too much heat else it melts and flows away. Too little heat and your filler just ***** up and doesn't bond.
What can I say.....I don't do aluminum.....
. Lots of steel and some cast iron. I leave the aluminum to those that really have the skill and experience.
Aluminum is not easy to weld, but with the right equipment and EXPERIENCE it can be done correctly. You can't apply too much heat else it melts and flows away. Too little heat and your filler just ***** up and doesn't bond.
What can I say.....I don't do aluminum.....
. Lots of steel and some cast iron. I leave the aluminum to those that really have the skill and experience.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 924
Likes: 0
From: Columbia South Carolina
I didn't say that cast iron couldn't be welded, just most don't know how to do it so it doesn't crack as it cools back down. Like you did, you have to preheat the iron, weld and then very slowly cool the iron down. Some suggest that after you weld it you heat it with a torch again and pack dry sand around it.
Aluminum is not easy to weld, but with the right equipment and EXPERIENCE it can be done correctly. You can't apply too much heat else it melts and flows away. Too little heat and your filler just ***** up and doesn't bond.
What can I say.....I don't do aluminum...... Lots of steel and some cast iron. I leave the aluminum to those that really have the skill and experience.
Aluminum is not easy to weld, but with the right equipment and EXPERIENCE it can be done correctly. You can't apply too much heat else it melts and flows away. Too little heat and your filler just ***** up and doesn't bond.
What can I say.....I don't do aluminum.....
. Lots of steel and some cast iron. I leave the aluminum to those that really have the skill and experience.I am thanking you in advance.
tankman