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87 Corvette Brake Failure

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Old Jan 16, 2014 | 09:54 PM
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Once the second crossmember brace was out of the way, the line fell out and I spent a little time cleaning up the crossmember.


The new line went in with no problem and I thought it was just going to be re-assembly time. I re-routed the cable for the ABS so it didn't pass as close to the headers. A lot of debris was falling out of the car around the crossmember but I thought it was just dirt and gravel.


While I was installing the driver side diagonal brace, pieces of plastic started falling from the car. I pulled the brace back out and the ABS sensor connector had disintegrated.


The sleeve on the two wires had crumbled a few years ago but I hadn’t expected the connector to go as well. A replacement cable runs about $100 so the repair starts at $200 in parts and then it’s new connectors in the harness or a new harness. Instead, I’m going to replace both male and female connectors with Weatherpack connectors.

I have a Weatherpack connector kit but my cheap crimper and I do a poor job putting together reliable connections. I wouldn’t normally spend a hundred bucks on a crimper but I know I’m going to be replacing more connectors in the future. While I’m at it, I’m going to put some new jackets on the sensor cable and tape up the corrugated plastic stuff so it’s a little neater in there.

I'm sure glad this isn't my daily driver...
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Old Jan 16, 2014 | 10:22 PM
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With the quality work that you are doing the car could be your daily driver when you're done. Great job and keep the updates coming.
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Old Jan 17, 2014 | 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Silver96ce
With the quality work that you are doing the car could be your daily driver when you're done. Great job and keep the updates coming.
Thanks Silver96ce,
I took your advice and bought the cheaper ($21.95) Snap-On flare wrench. It's a nice wrench but I probably should have checked the fittings on the new lines first. All of the fittings on the new stainless lines are 13mm with much beefier hex nuts.

At least now I have one Snap-On wrench to go with my one Snap-On screwdriver (it was under the rear seat in one of the used cars I bought years ago).
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Old Jan 17, 2014 | 01:27 AM
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My front ABS connectors are toast after a fire I had in my engine compartment. I had a puddle of burning trans fluid on the ground under my car. The sleeving on the ABS sensor wires broke off long ago. I think the racing I used to do overheated that area (I've boiled brake fluid more than once).

Those connectors appear to be a Bosch thing, as they don't look anything like GM connectors. I wonder if you could buy just the connectors. One thing I did after the fire was buy new connector shells and then move the connector pins to the new shells. No crimping or soldering. That worked great for the GM connectors but I never looked into replacing the Bosch connectors.

I bought some used ABS sensors years ago. The idiot I bought them from just cut the wires and didn't include the connectors. Very irritating.

Last edited by Cliff Harris; Jan 17, 2014 at 01:30 AM.
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Old Jan 17, 2014 | 05:59 AM
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I don't believe I'd use the "generic" weather-pack in that particular application. There are many more male/female types available that offer better sealing conditions. The weather-pack is certainly the more readily available and maybe if it were also covered in a "heat-shrink" sleeve might do well.

The GT 150 or the Metri Pack 280 series offers much better sealing, the connectors, seals, terminals and latches are readily available but maybe overkill. The Metri Pack 280 is the more compact offering and I believe would be my choice. The connector shells are available everywhere and cheap. The terminals, seals also. If you ever needed a replacement terminal or seal every GM dealer has them.

You'll enjoy a "premium" crimping device for sure.

This is NOT where I buy but from this single link you can check out all of the Metri Pack 280 product quite easily:

http://www.delcity.net/store/Metripa...ories/p_797634

BTW - very nice work and the documentation should maybe "inspire" many to do it right!

Last edited by WVZR-1; Jan 17, 2014 at 09:38 AM.
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Old Jan 17, 2014 | 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Cliff Harris
My front ABS connectors are toast after a fire I had in my engine compartment. I had a puddle of burning trans fluid on the ground under my car. The sleeving on the ABS sensor wires broke off long ago. I think the racing I used to do overheated that area (I've boiled brake fluid more than once).

Those connectors appear to be a Bosch thing, as they don't look anything like GM connectors. I wonder if you could buy just the connectors. One thing I did after the fire was buy new connector shells and then move the connector pins to the new shells. No crimping or soldering. That worked great for the GM connectors but I never looked into replacing the Bosch connectors.

I bought some used ABS sensors years ago. The idiot I bought them from just cut the wires and didn't include the connectors. Very irritating.
Cliff,
I'm sure you're right that those are Bosch connectors. They also have a special spring-steel mounting clip that secures the male and female connectors together and is secured to the frame with a sheet metal screw with a 7mm hex head. I've never seen anything like it on an American car but I bet they are common on BMWs and the like.

I am probably not using the right search term or maybe I should be searching in German but I haven't had any luck finding the connector. Of course if I were to find the connector, I would then probably be searching for a special insertion tool

I feel like there is a secret society aligned with Bosch ABS brake systems. I understand the liability aspects of a safety device like this but come on, "The modulator valve itself CANNOT BE REPAIRED." (that's a quote from the service manual,
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Old Jan 17, 2014 | 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by WVZR-1
I don't believe I'd use the "generic" weather-pack in that particular application. There are many more male/female types available that offer better sealing conditions. The weather-pack is certainly the more readily available and maybe if it were also covered in a "heat-shrink" sleeve might do well.

The GT 150 or the Metri Pack 280 series offers much better sealing, the connectors, seals, terminals and latches are readily available but maybe overkill. The Metri Pack 280 is the more compact offering and I believe would be my choice. The connector shells are available everywhere and cheap. The terminals, seals also. If you ever needed a replacement terminal or seal every GM dealer has them.

You'll enjoy a "premium" crimping device for sure.

This is NOT where I buy but from this single link you can check out all of the Metri Pack 280 product quite easily:

http://www.delcity.net/store/Metripa...ories/p_797634

BTW - very nice work and the documentation should maybe "inspire" many to do it right!
WVZR-1,
I appreciate the input. I didn't realize the generic Weatherpack connectors were inferior although I seem to have broken my fair share of them. I would be interested in trying the Metri-pak 280 but only if my new crimper works with those terminals. I do have some large shrink wrap tubing that would enclose the generic Weatherpack connector so I may go that way.

Funny you linked to Delcity because that's the site I ordered the extra connectors from. I wasn't going to bank on getting my crimps right the first time. Not that it couldn't happen.

The original connection held up for 27 years so hopefully this repair will come close. I turn 70 this year so if I don't have to fix this again until I turn 97, I'll be happy.
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Old Jan 17, 2014 | 04:14 PM
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In preparation for doing the repair on the wheel sensor cable, I threw some dirty parts in the cleaner bucket. I have had extremely good luck using this carb cleaner. It's very effective, doesn't make my eyes water and so far my skin hasn't fallen off after getting it on me. It takes undercoating, grease and dirt off a wide variety of parts, including most plastic ones. I always do a quick test to see if the plastic melts or otherwise reacts before I submerge it for an extended time.


Well, surprise surprise -- the insulation on the sensor wires reacts with the cleaner. It doesn't melt but it does swell up quite a bit. The brown covering swelled more than the black and it even split open. The loop you see is the excess insulation that was pushed off the wire.


So, my advise is to just use soap and water to clean up those cables. I will now be using shrink wrap to replace the insulation. I have a bunch of black but no brown so I guess I'll be using either white or red for the second color. Shouldn't really matter because I'm going to put some braided sheathing over the pair -- I hope.
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Old Jan 17, 2014 | 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Heine
WVZR-1,
I appreciate the input. I didn't realize the generic Weatherpack connectors were inferior although I seem to have broken my fair share of them. I would be interested in trying the Metri-pak 280 but only if my new crimper works with those terminals. I do have some large shrink wrap tubing that would enclose the generic Weatherpack connector so I may go that way.

Funny you linked to Delcity because that's the site I ordered the extra connectors from. I wasn't going to bank on getting my crimps right the first time. Not that it couldn't happen.

The original connection held up for 27 years so hopefully this repair will come close. I turn 70 this year so if I don't have to fix this again until I turn 97, I'll be happy.
Whose crimper did you buy? terminals should be an easy find "locally" - If you have issues tell me what you need and I can point you towards them. I don't buy from Delcity but their 280 series information was pretty well confined and it looked real easy to "poke around" and see what I intentioned.
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Old Jan 17, 2014 | 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by WVZR-1
Whose crimper did you buy? terminals should be an easy find "locally" - If you have issues tell me what you need and I can point you towards them. I don't buy from Delcity but their 280 series information was pretty well confined and it looked real easy to "poke around" and see what I intentioned.
It's a T12 Weatherpack terminal and seal crimper made by Delphi/Packard (12014254). Ordered it through Amazon from Performance Plus Connection.


I already have the economy crimper that I tried using on a couple of Weatherpack connectors. It worked but the results were not great.


I don't think the tool is my problem. I'm missing most of my left arm so holding the wire, the seal and the terminal and operating the crimper with one hand is a challenge. If I made these connections on a regular basis, I'd get better at it but once every few years is not really practice. I'm also pretty sure I have used the wrong hole to crimp the terminal and it has often made for loose connections.
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Old Jan 17, 2014 | 10:34 PM
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Okay, Bob, you're working one handed and you are turning 70 this year.
I have one word of advice for you - slow down because you are making the rest of us look bad.

I enjoy reading and following threads like this. Not only do you get the job done but you overcome problems you encounter along the way and as you proceed, you, along with others, give out valuable advice and information (the parts cleaner and wire sheath reactions, for instance).

and
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Old Jan 18, 2014 | 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Silver96ce
Okay, Bob, you're working one handed and you are turning 70 this year.
I have one word of advice for you - slow down because you are making the rest of us look bad.

I enjoy reading and following threads like this. Not only do you get the job done but you overcome problems you encounter along the way and as you proceed, you, along with others, give out valuable advice and information (the parts cleaner and wire sheath reactions, for instance).

and
Silver,
Thanks for the advice but it sounds a little like my wife. I also think most people watching me work want to take the tools away from me and get on with the job. I'm slow and I take frequent naps (not always under the car).
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Old Jan 18, 2014 | 09:48 PM
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I'm in FedUPS wait mode at the moment. I was stripping the insulation off the driver side sensor cable and noticed the cable is soldered to the terminal. I may give the new terminal a touch of solder as well.


I removed the passenger side sensor cable and took a picture before removing all the mounting clips. This will give me an idea of which grommet goes where when I go to put it all back together. And by the way, that's as close to the cleaner as this cable is going to get.
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Old Jan 19, 2014 | 01:19 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Bob Heine
I'm in FedUPS wait mode at the moment. I was stripping the insulation off the driver side sensor cable and noticed the cable is soldered to the terminal. I may give the new terminal a touch of solder as well.
I removed the passenger side sensor cable and took a picture before removing all the mounting clips. This will give me an idea of which grommet goes where when I go to put it all back together. And by the way, that's as close to the cleaner as this cable is going to get.
Solder is good for any crimped terminal and recommended. Your crimping device will do you well. The crimping for the seals makes it worth the additional expense if your into a project similar to yours and with many to do likely in the future. Most of the Delphi terminals are actually three stage, 1. conductor of the terminal, 2. the insulator of the wire and 3. the seal (it it's designed as such). The "pull to seat" are different I believe.

I don't believe I'd be grabbing at your tools - I can sit back and just watch, maybe ask questions, offer a suggestion maybe and when told to "just leave" I generally do that also.
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Old Jan 19, 2014 | 11:58 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by WVZR-1
Solder is good for any crimped terminal and recommended. Your crimping device will do you well. The crimping for the seals makes it worth the additional expense if your into a project similar to yours and with many to do likely in the future. Most of the Delphi terminals are actually three stage, 1. conductor of the terminal, 2. the insulator of the wire and 3. the seal (it it's designed as such). The "pull to seat" are different I believe.

I don't believe I'd be grabbing at your tools - I can sit back and just watch, maybe ask questions, offer a suggestion maybe and when told to "just leave" I generally do that also.
WVZR-1,
I wasn't real good at taking advice when I was young, ignoring "Don't get married at 17" and "Don't jump onto moving trains" being just two that come to mind. As I grow older I'm better at taking advice and I don't remember the last time I asked anyone to "just leave."

I do appreciate your comments and hope to minimize the issues with the Weatherpack connectors. With solder, silicone grease on the seals and conductive grease on the contacts, my belts and suspenders OCD will be taken care of .
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Old Jan 26, 2014 | 11:23 PM
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Thursday I received the last items needed to make progress on the brakes. I started by covering the bare wires with shrink tubing. The tubing slides on pretty easily until you get toward the end. I spent a half hour getting the tubing to slide on the last four inches. Kinda like pushing a rope through a pipe. When I finished with the black, I broke out my trusty Harbor Freight heat gun and shrank the tubing. I figured the red tube would be easier but it was just as hard. I have a lot of patience but this flat wears you down.


I took a break from the shrink tubing and installed a braided cover on the other sensor cable. I could have just wrapped it with electrical tape but figured this was my only chance to put on a braided sleeve. It’s a lot like pushing the shrink tubing but I used a tool much like the Chimpanzee ant collector. It’s a piece of stainless rod about 3/16” in diameter and a foot long. I rounded one end on an Excel wheel and taped the two wires to the other end. This is the sheathing after expanding it with the tool.


Now it’s time for some serious terminal crimping. I managed to crimp the first two terminals and they came out pretty good.


I was so pleased with the result I went back to pushing heat shrink tubing on the other wires. I even remembered to put some black RTV right at the sensor so the bare wires couldn't touch.

I don’t know how I forgot the procedure in less than an hour but I did. I did the black wire and was preparing to do the red wire.


I must have been in push mode because I pushed the wire too far into the terminal. The black terminal might have conducted electricity but the red terminal was crimped to the insulation.


No matter how much I spend on a tool, it can’t fix stupid. I won’t bore you with the re-do but the connectors are on and the sensors are back on the car. I thought about doing those but didn’t want to push my luck. I did manage to pull the harness out of the engine compartment and remove the covers.


That's enough wiring for one day. I quit while I was ahead.
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Old Jan 26, 2014 | 11:36 PM
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I decided to finish the brake line routing. On my 72 this is a pretty trivial job but the ABS lines on my 87 are a whole different animal. Before falling asleep at night I try to solve problems in my head. It came to me the other night that the rats nest of brake lines that go into the ABS compartment have to be laid out one way (maybe there is more than one but I don’t think so). The problem is you need to place the lines and then install the cover. Unfortunately you can’t see if the lines are laid out right unless you check them from the top. I made a holder from a piece of wood that would clamp the lines in place while working underneath.


Aside from drilling the holes I cut the slots with my radial arm saw (yeah, I’m old and I have one of those from the 70s). A little work with a Dremel and a round file and it’s a decent match for the cover slots.


Yes, that’s a subwoofer mounted behind the driver seat. With the right music it’s a pretty effective back massager.

The front end of the lines was next, starting with the line to the passenger side attached to the front crossmember. The two wheel sensor terminals are in their final location.


The bundle of lines is now clamped down and the heat shield is back in place.


Spent a good part of today getting the lines to their final shape and alignment. From the top it's looking pretty good.


After my dentist appointment tomorrow maybe I can get back in wiring mode and finish up that sensor cable setup.
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Old Jan 30, 2014 | 01:18 AM
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Instead of wiring, I decided to complete the install of the brake lines and connect the ABS unit. I wanted to be able to move the lines around and tweak the angle of the connections if need be. An old paint stick became a temporary brace for the ABS unit. I wasn’t sure exactly how I was going to get this brace out so it has slots instead of just holes.


I connected all the lines from the top but still had access from below to tweak the fit. I started all the fittings by hand and finger-tightened them. I did fully tighten that one fitting (front master to ABS) that had to be cut at the start of this project.


When I removed the slotted brace I got the front of the cover attached and the five lines started in their respective slots. Before installing the cover I put some black RTV into the slots to seal the lines.


I removed the diagonal brace and the nuts holding it on. I also used a foot-long piece of stainless tubing to bridge the top of the ABS compartment and tied the ABS unit up so it wouldn’t drop when the diagonal brace came out. It was a pretty quick process and I tightened the nuts holding the cover in place with very little drama. I did spend time getting one of the lines to drop into its slot but before the RTV set up, I was able to button it all up. I even managed to get the lines secured with the clip (took some persuading but nothing special).


In this picture you can see the two ends of the vapor line with nothing connecting them. For years I have gotten a whiff of gasoline when I get out of the car. I checked and double-checked under the hood and all the fuel lines on the passenger side of the car. I believe this vapor line with its completely broken hose connection was the source of the gasoline smell. Once it’s fixed, I’ll see if the smell is gone.

The wiring is definitely next, followed by tightening of all the fittings that are now hand tight and putting back all the stuff I removed (shocks, steering shaft and anti-roll bar). Then it's going to be time to bleed....
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Old Jan 30, 2014 | 10:05 AM
  #39  
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Stellar work and documentation, Bob. Reminds me how lazy I am

I must be old too....



....my restored DeWalt 7790. I also have a un-restored DeWalt Super Duty 3553 under a tarp waiting for my real wood shop (some day).

Last edited by DanZ51; Jan 30, 2014 at 10:08 AM.
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Old Jan 30, 2014 | 04:21 PM
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This is becoming an expensive trip to Florida.
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