cylinder one and five not working
Drifting
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,440
Likes: 19
From: SW Chicago Burbs IL
I have followed the thread since the beginning with a great interest, but I agree that it is difficult to follow. I apologize if this was already covered.
I have two comments:
1) Did you pull the spark plug(s) on 1/5 immediately after cranking/running? If so, were they wet? If they were wet, that would indicate fuel is being sprayed in the cylinder.
2) I think you should do a proper spark test. Using the "spark plug" method is not accurate. There is a tool specifically made for this that you adjust to the desired gap and see if the ignition system is strong enough to produce the spark to overcome it. The tool looks like this:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...ier=10257_0_0_
I don't know how easy that is for you to get in your country.
I realize that you replaced the distributor parts last year, but just because they are new doesn't mean that they are functioning properly. There have been many cases of bad parts out of the box that work marginally but not like they are supposed to. If it were my car, I'd be looking at the ignition system very hard.
Good luck.
I have two comments:
1) Did you pull the spark plug(s) on 1/5 immediately after cranking/running? If so, were they wet? If they were wet, that would indicate fuel is being sprayed in the cylinder.
2) I think you should do a proper spark test. Using the "spark plug" method is not accurate. There is a tool specifically made for this that you adjust to the desired gap and see if the ignition system is strong enough to produce the spark to overcome it. The tool looks like this:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...ier=10257_0_0_
I don't know how easy that is for you to get in your country.
I realize that you replaced the distributor parts last year, but just because they are new doesn't mean that they are functioning properly. There have been many cases of bad parts out of the box that work marginally but not like they are supposed to. If it were my car, I'd be looking at the ignition system very hard.
Good luck.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,538
Likes: 178
From: NE Ohio
2024 C4 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
Put an ohm meter at the end of the plug wire at the plug and the other lead on the wire at the distributor end of the wire. The wire must be loose from car. Now attach one end of the meter to #1 at the distributor and the other end to the #5 wire at the plug. Tell us the readings.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 838
Likes: 2
From: Louisville Ky
"are cylinders 1 and 5 dead?"
How do the plugs look for those cylinders?
Simple test, take a pop bottle or water bottle and put some water in it. Drill a hole in the cap 1/8" or so, w/e makes it easy for you too squirt some water where you want it. Warm up the engine and squirt the individual header pipes. If that cylinder is burning good it should burn the water off fast. Good simple way to spot a dead cylinder.
Simple test, take a pop bottle or water bottle and put some water in it. Drill a hole in the cap 1/8" or so, w/e makes it easy for you too squirt some water where you want it. Warm up the engine and squirt the individual header pipes. If that cylinder is burning good it should burn the water off fast. Good simple way to spot a dead cylinder.
they all should be working, if you have compression, fuel, spark. if a spark plug is fouled -meaning oily, black - then we don't really have spark. we, the readers, have no idea if the plugs are the correct heat range, or if they were new before the latest tests.
for example, the plug used in the video would probably not fire in the engine, with the weak spark.
to know the engine reaction to disconnecting plug wires or injectors, let someone watch the tach as you do it. try that on a good cylinder as well as 1 and 5.
I would verify some simple tests, with two new plugs of the correct heat range and gap, in 1 and 5, to prove that the cylinders are not firing -meaning dead- and eliminate that question.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 1
From: panama panama
I have gone over this so many times I am dizy lol. What we do know is you have compression. by the looks of the rockers it appears the intake valves are opeing letting the air and fuel into each cyl. You know You have fire and fire at the right time. You know the injectors are getting the voltage to open up and permit fuel to go into the cyl. You know there is no relation between the 2cly except they share the same bank. What has not been proven conclusley is the injectors spraying fuel or if the fuel and air passages somehow blocked. These seem to be the only 2 things that have not totaly been elimitated. if for sure the injectors are spraying fuel into the cyl and is the proper amount of air getting into the cly. At this point it appears unless Im missing something the injectors need to be checked if not replaced and you need to check for any type of air restriction on these 2 cyl. Any one have any other ideas? I really belive if he did what was asked and the results were what he said it boils down to this??
one thing occurred to me. I don't thing it will be very save to do. but if I had the fuel rail out. I can try to start the car . for a couple of seconds. and see for my self the injector spraying the damn fuel.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 1
From: panama panama
I have followed the thread since the beginning with a great interest, but I agree that it is difficult to follow. I apologize if this was already covered.
I have two comments:
1) Did you pull the spark plug(s) on 1/5 immediately after cranking/running? If so, were they wet? If they were wet, that would indicate fuel is being sprayed in the cylinder.
2) I think you should do a proper spark test. Using the "spark plug" method is not accurate. There is a tool specifically made for this that you adjust to the desired gap and see if the ignition system is strong enough to produce the spark to overcome it. The tool looks like this:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...ier=10257_0_0_
I don't know how easy that is for you to get in your country.
I realize that you replaced the distributor parts last year, but just because they are new doesn't mean that they are functioning properly. There have been many cases of bad parts out of the box that work marginally but not like they are supposed to. If it were my car, I'd be looking at the ignition system very hard.
Good luck.
I have two comments:
1) Did you pull the spark plug(s) on 1/5 immediately after cranking/running? If so, were they wet? If they were wet, that would indicate fuel is being sprayed in the cylinder.
2) I think you should do a proper spark test. Using the "spark plug" method is not accurate. There is a tool specifically made for this that you adjust to the desired gap and see if the ignition system is strong enough to produce the spark to overcome it. The tool looks like this:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...ier=10257_0_0_
I don't know how easy that is for you to get in your country.
I realize that you replaced the distributor parts last year, but just because they are new doesn't mean that they are functioning properly. There have been many cases of bad parts out of the box that work marginally but not like they are supposed to. If it were my car, I'd be looking at the ignition system very hard.
Good luck.
regarding the spark plug tester. if I can find it here I will try to get it. but I give you no guaranties
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 1
From: panama panama
Put an ohm meter at the end of the plug wire at the plug and the other lead on the wire at the distributor end of the wire. The wire must be loose from car. Now attach one end of the meter to #1 at the distributor and the other end to the #5 wire at the plug. Tell us the readings.
first part you are telling me to measure the resistance of the spark plug wire. I can understand that ok
but the next part is confusing. voltmeter to #1 at distributor and the other end to #5 wire at the plug. don't getting can you explain a little more
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 1
From: panama panama
this if post 7. someone else suggested using a child's crayon, mark each exhaust manifold port, with engine cold. start engine and run at fast idle. if those cylinders are really dead, the tests should show it.
they all should be working, if you have compression, fuel, spark. if a spark plug is fouled -meaning oily, black - then we don't really have spark. we, the readers, have no idea if the plugs are the correct heat range, or if they were new before the latest tests.
for example, the plug used in the video would probably not fire in the engine, with the weak spark.
to know the engine reaction to disconnecting plug wires or injectors, let someone watch the tach as you do it. try that on a good cylinder as well as 1 and 5.
I would verify some simple tests, with two new plugs of the correct heat range and gap, in 1 and 5, to prove that the cylinders are not firing -meaning dead- and eliminate that question.
they all should be working, if you have compression, fuel, spark. if a spark plug is fouled -meaning oily, black - then we don't really have spark. we, the readers, have no idea if the plugs are the correct heat range, or if they were new before the latest tests.
for example, the plug used in the video would probably not fire in the engine, with the weak spark.
to know the engine reaction to disconnecting plug wires or injectors, let someone watch the tach as you do it. try that on a good cylinder as well as 1 and 5.
I would verify some simple tests, with two new plugs of the correct heat range and gap, in 1 and 5, to prove that the cylinders are not firing -meaning dead- and eliminate that question.
But I think that is because #5 exhaust is super close to number #3 making number #5 getting hot also
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 1
From: panama panama
By browsing on Google I look up for corvette 1986 firing order. on image.
I get two different image. one that say the dist. rotor rotation is counter clock wise the other say clock wise.
I have always assume that the proper way for my car is clock wise rotor rotation
please let me know if Iam correct..
I get two different image. one that say the dist. rotor rotation is counter clock wise the other say clock wise.
I have always assume that the proper way for my car is clock wise rotor rotation
please let me know if Iam correct..
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 838
Likes: 2
From: Louisville Ky
"I would verify some simple tests, with two new plugs of the correct heat range and gap, in 1 and 5, to prove that the cylinders are not firing -meaning dead- and eliminate that question. "
my educated guess is that #5 was hot because it was firing. if there was any heat in #1, it was firing also. why didn't you post this info before now?
none of your tests so far prove anything -because you didn't verify that the plugs in those cylinders were not basura, garbage.
IF you want to prove it, use the crayon, or lipstick, see if you get heat from the cylinders -with two new plugs, starting with a cold manifold.
as I said in my first post, it does not make mechanical sense that the two cylinders are dead, when they have compression, fuel, spark.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 1
From: panama panama
"I would verify some simple tests, with two new plugs of the correct heat range and gap, in 1 and 5, to prove that the cylinders are not firing -meaning dead- and eliminate that question. "
my educated guess is that #5 was hot because it was firing. if there was any heat in #1, it was firing also. why didn't you post this info before now?
none of your tests so far prove anything -because you didn't verify that the plugs in those cylinders were not basura, garbage.
IF you want to prove it, use the crayon, or lipstick, see if you get heat from the cylinders -with two new plugs, starting with a cold manifold.
as I said in my first post, it does not make mechanical sense that the two cylinders are dead, when they have compression, fuel, spark.
my educated guess is that #5 was hot because it was firing. if there was any heat in #1, it was firing also. why didn't you post this info before now?
none of your tests so far prove anything -because you didn't verify that the plugs in those cylinders were not basura, garbage.
IF you want to prove it, use the crayon, or lipstick, see if you get heat from the cylinders -with two new plugs, starting with a cold manifold.
as I said in my first post, it does not make mechanical sense that the two cylinders are dead, when they have compression, fuel, spark.
ok I will use the crayon at first chance. will try to get a new plug for testing.
here is the video water test on exhaust
[IMG]
[/IMG]
Last edited by hitmanpty; Feb 17, 2014 at 09:20 PM.
Drifting
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,440
Likes: 19
From: SW Chicago Burbs IL
I believe this weekend I will remove the intake and injectors again and check for any restriction.
one thing occurred to me. I don't thing it will be very save to do. but if I had the fuel rail out. I can try to start the car . for a couple of seconds. and see for my self the injector spraying the damn fuel.
one thing occurred to me. I don't thing it will be very save to do. but if I had the fuel rail out. I can try to start the car . for a couple of seconds. and see for my self the injector spraying the damn fuel.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 1
From: panama panama
you know what I will give the injectors a rest. I was reading an old post of my about this same problem I been having since 2012. I did change all the injectors because I had number 1 and 5 dead cylinders.
so is imposible to has change the injectors and check them on the lab. ultra sonic cleaning and spray test. they all come out ok. and number 1 & 5 cylinder still dead. so is not the injectors Iam going to rule that out as this moment.
so is imposible to has change the injectors and check them on the lab. ultra sonic cleaning and spray test. they all come out ok. and number 1 & 5 cylinder still dead. so is not the injectors Iam going to rule that out as this moment.
Last edited by hitmanpty; Feb 17, 2014 at 09:39 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,538
Likes: 178
From: NE Ohio
2024 C4 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
I don't think I understand exactly what you want me to do here. also what we will establish with this test.
first part you are telling me to measure the resistance of the spark plug wire. I can understand that ok
but the next part is confusing. voltmeter to #1 at distributor and the other end to #5 wire at the plug. don't getting can you explain a little more
first part you are telling me to measure the resistance of the spark plug wire. I can understand that ok
but the next part is confusing. voltmeter to #1 at distributor and the other end to #5 wire at the plug. don't getting can you explain a little more
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 1
From: panama panama
but I will do it just for peace of mine.
Last edited by hitmanpty; Feb 18, 2014 at 11:15 AM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 1
From: panama panama
Update on the situation.
I know it been son time since my last post.
Today i did something i think i will never do.
I sent the vette to a mechanic.
Now i have to wait. And see what he say. He took the car to work specificaly on the number 1 and 5 cylinder. And find out wha is going on.
I will keep you all posted
I know it been son time since my last post.
Today i did something i think i will never do.
I sent the vette to a mechanic.
Now i have to wait. And see what he say. He took the car to work specificaly on the number 1 and 5 cylinder. And find out wha is going on.
I will keep you all posted
