Problem with 1985
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 218
Likes: 4
From: Durham NC
Problem with 1985
I replaced the intake manifold gasket. All went back together fine. Wiring correct place, distributor set back in same place -- everything checks out. But, now the starter drags badly - sometimes to the point of overheating the battery cable at the starter. The car did start and ran "OK" but not good. Tried to set timing but the timing light will not show the timing mark anywhere on the harmonic balancer. What am I missing? What in the world could be wrong? Now, the battery will not turn the engine over enough for it to start. (I have not charged the battery any yet, but will do that later today). I am sure there is something easy I am missing, but what?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 171
From: Dublin CA
1) Did you disconnect the single brown/white wire in the rear next to the wiper motor to set the timing?
2) Are you sure you have the plug spark puckup wire in plug #1?
3) Intake gaskets should not have any impact on the starter.
4) Are you sure the battery cable is clean and tight on both the positive and negative terminals?
2) Are you sure you have the plug spark puckup wire in plug #1?
3) Intake gaskets should not have any impact on the starter.
4) Are you sure the battery cable is clean and tight on both the positive and negative terminals?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 218
Likes: 4
From: Durham NC
1) Did you disconnect the single brown/white wire in the rear next to the wiper motor to set the timing?
2) Are you sure you have the plug spark puckup wire in plug #1?
3) Intake gaskets should not have any impact on the starter.
4) Are you sure the battery cable is clean and tight on both the positive and negative terminals?
2) Are you sure you have the plug spark puckup wire in plug #1?
3) Intake gaskets should not have any impact on the starter.
4) Are you sure the battery cable is clean and tight on both the positive and negative terminals?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 171
From: Dublin CA
White smoke not an issue due to the work you did. What do you consider high idle? Are all the vacuum lines hooked back up correctly?
I usually put white paint or something like paper white out in the balancer timing groove, helps to see it. You should be able to see the timing mark on the balance with the timing light and the wire unplugged.
Had you timed the car in the past and it showed correctly?
I usually put white paint or something like paper white out in the balancer timing groove, helps to see it. You should be able to see the timing mark on the balance with the timing light and the wire unplugged.
Had you timed the car in the past and it showed correctly?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 218
Likes: 4
From: Durham NC
White smoke not an issue due to the work you did. What do you consider high idle? Are all the vacuum lines hooked back up correctly?
I usually put white paint or something like paper white out in the balancer timing groove, helps to see it. You should be able to see the timing mark on the balance with the timing light and the wire unplugged.
Had you timed the car in the past and it showed correctly?
I usually put white paint or something like paper white out in the balancer timing groove, helps to see it. You should be able to see the timing mark on the balance with the timing light and the wire unplugged.
Had you timed the car in the past and it showed correctly?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 171
From: Dublin CA
I would check for vacuum lines, especially the large line to the brake booster. Is you idle steady at 1000 or is ti fluctuating?
If steady, then I would check the TPS to see if your at .54 volts at idle and perhaps reset the IAC which controls the air at idle to the TB.
If the idle is jumping....(sorry) I would check for vacuum leaks around the intake and the gaskets around the runners and plenum. Are you sure you put the runners back on the correct sides?
If steady, then I would check the TPS to see if your at .54 volts at idle and perhaps reset the IAC which controls the air at idle to the TB.
If the idle is jumping....(sorry) I would check for vacuum leaks around the intake and the gaskets around the runners and plenum. Are you sure you put the runners back on the correct sides?
Pro
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 732
Likes: 72
From: the confused state CT
Check to see you are not a tooth or two off with the distributor. Set the #1 cyl at tdc on the compression stroke, check that the mark on the balancer lines up and the rotor is pointing at #1 on the cap.
Just a thought
Gary
Just a thought
Gary
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 218
Likes: 4
From: Durham NC
I would check for vacuum lines, especially the large line to the brake booster. Is you idle steady at 1000 or is ti fluctuating?
If steady, then I would check the TPS to see if your at .54 volts at idle and perhaps reset the IAC which controls the air at idle to the TB.
If the idle is jumping....(sorry) I would check for vacuum leaks around the intake and the gaskets around the runners and plenum. Are you sure you put the runners back on the correct sides?
If steady, then I would check the TPS to see if your at .54 volts at idle and perhaps reset the IAC which controls the air at idle to the TB.
If the idle is jumping....(sorry) I would check for vacuum leaks around the intake and the gaskets around the runners and plenum. Are you sure you put the runners back on the correct sides?
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 218
Likes: 4
From: Durham NC
No. I put the dist in with the rotor lined up to my mark and then rotated the engine by hand just a little so the dist would drop in place. The dist shaft engages with the cam gear and does not loose its place as the rotation "finds" the oil pump shaft.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,082
Likes: 3
From: Conowingo Maryland
cool the reason I ask is seldom can you pull a SB dist and drip it right back into place. 99% of the time the oil shft has to be turned for it to line up correctly. The way you did it works great thoug. There are only a couple things that would cause you not to be able to see the timing mark. The timing chain jumped, the timing is off in relation to tdc, the balancer twisted. Seeing that everything ran before I would put the balancer on TDC pull the cap and make sure the rotor is pointing to #1
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 218
Likes: 4
From: Durham NC
cool the reason I ask is seldom can you pull a SB dist and drip it right back into place. 99% of the time the oil shft has to be turned for it to line up correctly. The way you did it works great thoug. There are only a couple things that would cause you not to be able to see the timing mark. The timing chain jumped, the timing is off in relation to tdc, the balancer twisted. Seeing that everything ran before I would put the balancer on TDC pull the cap and make sure the rotor is pointing to #1
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,697
Likes: 1,666
From: moraga ca
If the starter has to work hard to turn the motor, the idle is high and you can't find the timing mark, you might be overadvanced and the timing light is off the tab. Try rotating the distributor clockwise. The idle will slow down and the motor will turn over easier. Then check the timing.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 218
Likes: 4
From: Durham NC
If the starter has to work hard to turn the motor, the idle is high and you can't find the timing mark, you might be overadvanced and the timing light is off the tab. Try rotating the distributor clockwise. The idle will slow down and the motor will turn over easier. Then check the timing.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,745
Likes: 275
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Hi
Remember the harmonic ballancer outer ring can slip, it is just a piece of rubber that holds it together. (usually the outer ballancer ring moves back against the timing cover).
As the other posters have said, being too far advanced will have the engine working against the starter.
First thing is to confirm you have set the timing right and your ballancer outer ring has not slipped, best to remove the driver rocker cover and watch the inlet valve open and close. When the piston is at its highest point the timing mark on the harmonic ballancer should line up, if not replace the ballancer.
then insert the distributor with the rotor pointing between 1 and 8, fit the cap and wires, she should start right up and check the timing 6 deg BTDC.
Remember the harmonic ballancer outer ring can slip, it is just a piece of rubber that holds it together. (usually the outer ballancer ring moves back against the timing cover).
As the other posters have said, being too far advanced will have the engine working against the starter.
First thing is to confirm you have set the timing right and your ballancer outer ring has not slipped, best to remove the driver rocker cover and watch the inlet valve open and close. When the piston is at its highest point the timing mark on the harmonic ballancer should line up, if not replace the ballancer.
then insert the distributor with the rotor pointing between 1 and 8, fit the cap and wires, she should start right up and check the timing 6 deg BTDC.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 218
Likes: 4
From: Durham NC
Hi
Remember the harmonic ballancer outer ring can slip, it is just a piece of rubber that holds it together. (usually the outer ballancer ring moves back against the timing cover).
As the other posters have said, being too far advanced will have the engine working against the starter.
First thing is to confirm you have set the timing right and your ballancer outer ring has not slipped, best to remove the driver rocker cover and watch the inlet valve open and close. When the piston is at its highest point the timing mark on the harmonic ballancer should line up, if not replace the ballancer.
then insert the distributor with the rotor pointing between 1 and 8, fit the cap and wires, she should start right up and check the timing 6 deg BTDC.
Remember the harmonic ballancer outer ring can slip, it is just a piece of rubber that holds it together. (usually the outer ballancer ring moves back against the timing cover).
As the other posters have said, being too far advanced will have the engine working against the starter.
First thing is to confirm you have set the timing right and your ballancer outer ring has not slipped, best to remove the driver rocker cover and watch the inlet valve open and close. When the piston is at its highest point the timing mark on the harmonic ballancer should line up, if not replace the ballancer.
then insert the distributor with the rotor pointing between 1 and 8, fit the cap and wires, she should start right up and check the timing 6 deg BTDC.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 171
From: Dublin CA
I will go out on a limb here....if the distributor is off a notch it really will not matter. The only thing this will do is put the distributor cap in a non-standard or non-traditional position. You will still have to turn the top of the distributor until the rotor is in the position to fire plug #1. The the case of the L98, there are limits to your ability to turn the distributor. The firewall is one limit and the other is the plenum. You will hit one or the other if your off too much. I have a 74 Blazer with so much room in the engine compartment that you can turn the distributor 360 and not hit anything.
You could have the distributor position 180 from it traditional position and as long as you move the plug wires and shift them around (about 180) from the traditional spot, the car will run. And it can be timed without an issue.
Like 383vette said, you may have turned the distributor into a position that the car runs but not optimal. You timing light would get you were you should be. Your hard start issue my be the position of the distributor.
You could have the distributor position 180 from it traditional position and as long as you move the plug wires and shift them around (about 180) from the traditional spot, the car will run. And it can be timed without an issue.
Like 383vette said, you may have turned the distributor into a position that the car runs but not optimal. You timing light would get you were you should be. Your hard start issue my be the position of the distributor.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 218
Likes: 4
From: Durham NC
I will go out on a limb here....if the distributor is off a notch it really will not matter. The only thing this will do is put the distributor cap in a non-standard or non-traditional position. You will still have to turn the top of the distributor until the rotor is in the position to fire plug #1. The the case of the L98, there are limits to your ability to turn the distributor. The firewall is one limit and the other is the plenum. You will hit one or the other if your off too much. I have a 74 Blazer with so much room in the engine compartment that you can turn the distributor 360 and not hit anything.
You could have the distributor position 180 from it traditional position and as long as you move the plug wires and shift them around (about 180) from the traditional spot, the car will run. And it can be timed without an issue.
Like 383vette said, you may have turned the distributor into a position that the car runs but not optimal. You timing light would get you were you should be. Your hard start issue my be the position of the distributor.
You could have the distributor position 180 from it traditional position and as long as you move the plug wires and shift them around (about 180) from the traditional spot, the car will run. And it can be timed without an issue.
Like 383vette said, you may have turned the distributor into a position that the car runs but not optimal. You timing light would get you were you should be. Your hard start issue my be the position of the distributor.
Thanks a lot. Al you have said makes lots of sense. I will look into all of this this afternoon. (The weather is good and I need a golf outing). But, as soon as I return I am getting right on this. Thinking back over how things were replaced and being in a slight rush, I am really wondering if the distributor was installed out of position and I can not turn it far enough due to the clearance issues you noted to get the timing marks to line up (or just be seen). The replies I have gotten from all of you have been great and helpful. When I get this thing fixed, I will post all that was done. Thanks.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 171
From: Dublin CA
With the timing marks lined up and compression in #1 cylinder, the rotor should roughly point to the far driver's side of the plenum corner. If it is too far from this area, try pulling the distributor and then using a long screw driver turn the oil pump shaft and drop the distributor back in. Remember that:
1) the distributor will rotate about a tooth as it drops into the cam gears and turns clockwise. So you have to turn the rotor a little counter clockwise from where you want it to end up.
2) the distributor has to drop over the oil pump shaft to seat against the intake. It may take several attempts of turning the oil pump shaft to get it where it needs to be.
1) the distributor will rotate about a tooth as it drops into the cam gears and turns clockwise. So you have to turn the rotor a little counter clockwise from where you want it to end up.
2) the distributor has to drop over the oil pump shaft to seat against the intake. It may take several attempts of turning the oil pump shaft to get it where it needs to be.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 218
Likes: 4
From: Durham NC
With the timing marks lined up and compression in #1 cylinder, the rotor should roughly point to the far driver's side of the plenum corner. If it is too far from this area, try pulling the distributor and then using a long screw driver turn the oil pump shaft and drop the distributor back in. Remember that:
1) the distributor will rotate about a tooth as it drops into the cam gears and turns clockwise. So you have to turn the rotor a little counter clockwise from where you want it to end up.
2) the distributor has to drop over the oil pump shaft to seat against the intake. It may take several attempts of turning the oil pump shaft to get it where it needs to be.
1) the distributor will rotate about a tooth as it drops into the cam gears and turns clockwise. So you have to turn the rotor a little counter clockwise from where you want it to end up.
2) the distributor has to drop over the oil pump shaft to seat against the intake. It may take several attempts of turning the oil pump shaft to get it where it needs to be.