Will WIDER front tires improve handling?
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Melting Slicks
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From: All sex is good sex Los Angeles, CA
Will WIDER front tires improve handling?
I'm sure this has been asked, but I searched and couldn't find.
My last vette (89) had 17 x 9.5 front and back. My new vette ( 1996 C.E) has 17 x 8.5 in the front and 17 x 9.5 in the back. If I upgrade to 17 x 9.5 on the front and mount 265 or 275 (instead of 255 like I have now) on the front will that improve handling?
Thnx, David
My last vette (89) had 17 x 9.5 front and back. My new vette ( 1996 C.E) has 17 x 8.5 in the front and 17 x 9.5 in the back. If I upgrade to 17 x 9.5 on the front and mount 265 or 275 (instead of 255 like I have now) on the front will that improve handling?
Thnx, David
Le Mans Master
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From: Lost in the mountains of TN
Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (Scorpion Dude)
It would help a little bit. But you may notice a little more bumpsteer. Hence why they went to the 255 in the front.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Springdale AR
Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (BiZ)
Just my opinion, NO. I read an artical on why corvette went to the narrower tire in 93, it gave the car more stability and handling control. I have a 92 which was the year before they changed so I still have the same size on all 4's but I have actually been thinking about changing my front 2 to what the 93 has on it. :rolleyes:
Melting Slicks
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From: NW Chicago Suburbs
Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (vette92_1)
Just my opinion, NO. I read an artical on why corvette went to the narrower tire in 93, it gave the car more stability and handling control.
Eric
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Springdale AR
Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (silver & red CE)
but you will have more understeer, ie push in the corners.
Eric
Eric
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From: Krakow
Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (vette92_1)
I think, no, look at that super exotic cars as porsche, ferrari and lambo, all of them had rather "normal" front tires even smaller that in vette.
Jerry
Jerry
Melting Slicks
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From: NW Chicago Suburbs
Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (jtjerry)
...look at that super exotic cars as porsche, ferrari and lambo, all of them had rather "normal" front tires even smaller that in vette.
Eric
Safety Car
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From: Pinellas Florida Misfit
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Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (jtjerry)
Your forgetting the Z07 cars came with the wider tires up front even after they went to 8.5 rims on the regular cars.... if Z07 was a suspension package, why else would they put the wider tires up there?
I run 285's all the way around on mine and it's better in the turns then the 255's were... but it does make the FE1 softness very noticable. Tires grab, but the body wants to roll.
I run 285's all the way around on mine and it's better in the turns then the 255's were... but it does make the FE1 softness very noticable. Tires grab, but the body wants to roll.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: NW Chicago Suburbs
Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (Springer's 95)
...Tires grab, but the body wants to roll.
Eric
Safety Car
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From: Pinellas Florida Misfit
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Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (silver & red CE)
yep.. .they are on the list!.. 30 front and 26 rear. I'm going to go through the suspension all at one time, (sway bars, shocks, camber brace, bushings, possible coilovers) but I want to weigh the use of coilovers while I'm at it. I actually just posted a thread about the use of coilovers on the street. :cheers:
Racer
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From: Krakow
Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (Springer's 95)
ach , sometimes is wet (rain)
wider tires are not better for bad weather.
I think wider tires are not even necessary for better stopping. Look at good sports cars (they had tires no wider than 255 at front) and has great stopping power. I have 1991 lexus LS 400 too.
It has 205 front tires and weight about 4000 lbs and stop zillions times better that my c4 1988 vette. It has huge stopping power from high speeds (say above 130 MPH). Vette has poor brakes.
Big tires and no brakes. I thinking about swap lexus brakes (calipers and rotors) to my vette for some stopping, but there is a lot custom work to do. (mounting brackets)
Wider front tires make driving on not perfectly smooth surfaces PITA too.
But they look great, and when you pop up hood there always will be aaachs and ooochs :yesnod:
Jerry
wider tires are not better for bad weather.
I think wider tires are not even necessary for better stopping. Look at good sports cars (they had tires no wider than 255 at front) and has great stopping power. I have 1991 lexus LS 400 too.
It has 205 front tires and weight about 4000 lbs and stop zillions times better that my c4 1988 vette. It has huge stopping power from high speeds (say above 130 MPH). Vette has poor brakes.
Big tires and no brakes. I thinking about swap lexus brakes (calipers and rotors) to my vette for some stopping, but there is a lot custom work to do. (mounting brackets)
Wider front tires make driving on not perfectly smooth surfaces PITA too.
But they look great, and when you pop up hood there always will be aaachs and ooochs :yesnod:
Jerry
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: NW Chicago Suburbs
Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (jtjerry)
Well, with the 12" brakes, it doesn't matter what size tires you have. But your Vette brakes are a 17 year old system, not really fair to compare to a new car.
Eric
Eric
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From: Springfield VA
Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (jtjerry)
Two questions Jerry...
1. What size of rotor is on the Lexus and what size is on the vette?
2. What kind of pads are you using on the vette?
I've done some pretty heavy braking under high speed conditions on a track for 20 - 30 minutes without fade using the J55 brakes and PFC pads.
There are brakes that are better than what comes stock on the C4s but when people say the brakes are bad (poor) I have to ask why.
1. What size of rotor is on the Lexus and what size is on the vette?
2. What kind of pads are you using on the vette?
I've done some pretty heavy braking under high speed conditions on a track for 20 - 30 minutes without fade using the J55 brakes and PFC pads.
There are brakes that are better than what comes stock on the C4s but when people say the brakes are bad (poor) I have to ask why.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Springdale AR
Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (jtjerry)
I thinking about swap lexus brakes (calipers and rotors) to my vette for some stopping, but there is a lot custom work to do. (mounting brackets)
Le Mans Master
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From: DrunkDefender
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St. Jude Donor '07-'10
Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (vette92_1)
Warning...hijacked thread ;)
Seriously though. GM put smaller tires on to dial in understeer, it was cheaper and makes it a little easier to drive in everyday type situations. Allmost all car manufacturers dial in understeer. It's generaly safer for the average driver. Understeer is defined as when the driver is scared. Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. Same size front/rear tires and wheels will help it feel more nuetral. For better results dial in a little bit of neg camber, 0* toe in front and rear and some positive castor. That would help alot but will accelerate your tire wear and make it follow/track grooved roads too. It's a tradeoff. Might want to post this in autocrossing and roadracing too.
Seriously though. GM put smaller tires on to dial in understeer, it was cheaper and makes it a little easier to drive in everyday type situations. Allmost all car manufacturers dial in understeer. It's generaly safer for the average driver. Understeer is defined as when the driver is scared. Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. Same size front/rear tires and wheels will help it feel more nuetral. For better results dial in a little bit of neg camber, 0* toe in front and rear and some positive castor. That would help alot but will accelerate your tire wear and make it follow/track grooved roads too. It's a tradeoff. Might want to post this in autocrossing and roadracing too.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Portland Oregon
Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (red90sixspeed)
I used to have a 94 ZO7 coupe. It came stock with 275s front and rear. That car could really handle. I have read that GM went to the smaller fronts on the normal vettes to decrease road wandering ie directional stability. GM traded off some grip in the process. If you look at new vette buyers of that era you'll notice that most were not looking for racecars with license plates. How else do you explain the low production #'s for ZO7s and the predominence of automatic transmissions. Most new buyers were willing to trade off a little performance for added comfort.
If you are looking for better handling I would say go with 9.5s all around and get some sticky 285 rubber. I put 285 pilots on mine and was really blown away by the G's it could pull. To get the most out of the tires you should also upgrade the suspension to ZO7 specs or go with a good after market set up. But be prepared for a little more road wander and a firmer ride.
If you are looking for better handling I would say go with 9.5s all around and get some sticky 285 rubber. I put 285 pilots on mine and was really blown away by the G's it could pull. To get the most out of the tires you should also upgrade the suspension to ZO7 specs or go with a good after market set up. But be prepared for a little more road wander and a firmer ride.
Racer
Joined: May 2000
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From: Krakow
Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (96LT1)
96LT1
in my vette I have 12 inch rotors and two pistons PBR calipers
Rotors are big but thin (I will be in metric): 2 cm, and pads are longs but friction area is only 4 cm from rotors edge to center of rotor. Friction area for vette brakes is 327 cm2,
In my lexus I have 11 inch rotors and two pistons calipers, they look strange (very boxy) and are big. Rotors are 2,5 cm thick, and friction area is 5,5 cm. So all friction area is 390 cm2. It is 16% more friction area than in vette. Belive me, that brakes work fantastic, especially under hard stops.
I want bigger brakes but as always money is a factor. So just thinking about buying on junk lexus calipers and try do something, but it will be hard.
1. rotors from lexus do not fit without heavy modifications on vette hubs.
2. calipers of course do not fit to vette knuckle.
so there is a lot big and hard to do modifications.
even brake lines are different.
But... if I imagine how that setup work on 800 lbs heavier car, that is tempting. Good brakes are almost as fun as big engine.
:D
Jerry
in my vette I have 12 inch rotors and two pistons PBR calipers
Rotors are big but thin (I will be in metric): 2 cm, and pads are longs but friction area is only 4 cm from rotors edge to center of rotor. Friction area for vette brakes is 327 cm2,
In my lexus I have 11 inch rotors and two pistons calipers, they look strange (very boxy) and are big. Rotors are 2,5 cm thick, and friction area is 5,5 cm. So all friction area is 390 cm2. It is 16% more friction area than in vette. Belive me, that brakes work fantastic, especially under hard stops.
I want bigger brakes but as always money is a factor. So just thinking about buying on junk lexus calipers and try do something, but it will be hard.
1. rotors from lexus do not fit without heavy modifications on vette hubs.
2. calipers of course do not fit to vette knuckle.
so there is a lot big and hard to do modifications.
even brake lines are different.
But... if I imagine how that setup work on 800 lbs heavier car, that is tempting. Good brakes are almost as fun as big engine.
:D
Jerry
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From: Socorro New Mexico
Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (Scorpion Dude)
More rubber = more traction.
Does more traction = better handling?
Depends on how you put it all togehter.
A few years ago I read a C4 article in one of the Vette mags; this guy tinkered with custom wheels (widths and offsets), 315 35ZR17s all around, sway bars and springs. He ended up with 1.01 Gs on the skid pad with very responsive and good handling.
So the answer is ; Yes, but...
Does more traction = better handling?
Depends on how you put it all togehter.
A few years ago I read a C4 article in one of the Vette mags; this guy tinkered with custom wheels (widths and offsets), 315 35ZR17s all around, sway bars and springs. He ended up with 1.01 Gs on the skid pad with very responsive and good handling.
So the answer is ; Yes, but...
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Sarasota FL
Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (Scorpion Dude)
Mine had 275/40 x 17" all the way around stock. When I put the 315/35 x 17" and 11" rims on the back it helped the tracking and improved the handling. It alows using the throttle to induce oversteer, when powering out of a turn.
Mo' rubber = mo' traction.
Mo' rubber = mo' traction.
Racer
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From: South Glastonbury CT
St. Jude Donor '06
Re: Will WIDER front tires improve handling? (Scorpion Dude)
I have decided to go 275 all the way around. My 255's understeer (push) in tight corners. You will only get a bump steer problem if you use your stock alignment specs. I have a fair amount of things done to my suspention and the only weak link are the 255's. I used a set of 275 race tires on the front and 285's out back at one of my races, after that I was sold. However, If you are not racing or don't drive your Vette hard, staying with 255's will save you a little money. You can get a little better cornering by adjusting the negative camber settings and/or tghe size of the front and rear sway bars.
:cheers:
[Modified by mj_duell, 7:55 AM 7/22/2002]
:cheers:
[Modified by mj_duell, 7:55 AM 7/22/2002]
