Has anyone used this German M-series oil alternative in the ZF6? Seen a lot of posts of good results within the BMW M community instead of the TWS oil.

Since it can be ordered through amazon for 5 liters (enough for two transmission oil changes) for <$50. Its a great price if it does the job.

Any experience with this oil?

**I did attempt a search**



Castro TWS tech specs: http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/C746D41872AA21F880257BAB002E4C5E/$File/BPXE-99R6P4.pdf

Liqui Moly Tech Specs: http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/p...cument&land=de (follow the link to the tech specs)

Seem similar to me, and based on ZfDocs recommendation for TWS instead of the GM oil I was interested in running 10W60 and was hoping for a good alternative that isn't so difficult to acquire.

 

If no one has much experience, I'll give it a go and report back. I don't drive very much and typically take it easy. I can compare old, stock oil I have now to the new, but of course it will be very subjective.

 

10W-60?

You're considering using a 10W-60?

Really?

 

Yes, in the transmission. As an alternative to using BMW's Castrol TWS 10W60 that is recommended.

 

Oh, okay. Thought you were talking about putting it in the engine.

My bad.

I'll go away now.

 

I've done a lot of research over the last almost 20 years on lubricants for the ZF S6-40.

The factory fill was a specially-formulated, Havoline 5W30 engine oil. Havoline stopped supplying it many years ago.

A Castrol 10W60 has been suggested as an alternative but some who've done long-term testing of that say it's not very durable needing to be changed every 10,000 miles.

While those two motor oils have been validated in the ZF, I'd be careful about using motor oils which have not been validated in the ZF. They may or may not have the right additive package to provide good shift feel.

The best performing lubricant I've tested, personally, in a ZF S6-40 is Red Line Light Shockproof Gear Lubricant. I've been using that for about 18 years, changing it every 24,000-36,000 miles. That said, RL LSP has one weakness and that's in a gearbox subjected to cold weather. If you want good shift feel when the lubricant is below 65°F use another Red Line Product MTL which is a 5W30 on the engine oil viscosity scale and a 75W80 on the gear oil viscosity scale.

On the other hand, if you're willing to let the trans warm just a bit before you expect it to shift like a "knife-through-butter", then use Red Line Light Shockproof. Combine that with a Hurst Shifter, a clutch in good condition and properly bled clutch hydraulics and you will have absolutely amazing shift feel

 

Okay, I already put my foot in my mouth once, but I'm always game for more...

I tried unsuccessfully to read the Liqui Moly website, but if the name means anything, sounds like they are using molybdenum disulphide as an anti-wear additive. That really isn't a good idea for high speed bearings, as the moly forms a heat barrier that doesn't allow the heat to dissipate through the bearing material. I found that out the hard way buy using moly grease in the stock front ball wheel bearings of the '57 and suffering multiple failures.

Hib, any experience with this:
http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...?code=MTFQT-EA
It's what AMSOIL recommends for the application. Wouldn't have cold weather issues.

 

That Amsoil is what I have been using in my '96.
Many others here are also using it, and I have never heard anything negative about it.

Been using it for 8 years and about 70,000 miles now without any issues.

 

Time for another foot-in-mouth:
If Moly is bad for high-speed bearings, how could the lube in question (posted by the OP) be used/recommended for an engine?

 

Although Liqui Moly does claim MoS2 in some of their thinner oils (right in the title of the oil), I don't believe it is included in the 10W60 oil (essentially an oil made specifically to duplicate the BMW M-series oil). Im still trying to confirm whether MoS2 is present or not, but im leaning not.

I really want to go with a 10W60 oil due to the fact I'm in the Phoenix area and based on the reports of ZFdoc.

 

thanks for the write up! I will check it out. At least Red Line is easier to get than TWS. I've heard great things about Red Line, but do not have any personal experience. My main concern is smoothing out the gear shifts and quieting the typical gear noise while providing the protection it deserves.

I was aware of the 10,000 mileage of the 10W60 and that was why I wanted an alternative. Liqui Moly was essentially $25 for each change.

Hib, any recommendations for rear end gear oil from Red Line or another manufacturer? Thanks.

 

Well, you have heard of "buyer beware", right?

 

I think the debate surrounding MoS2 is that it is not oil soluble and technically a micro-solid suspended in the oil. When suspended it can be very effective creating less friction on metal surfaces. Unfortunately it also can settle out of suspension and cause issues.

Most companies use a different form of moly that is soluble and doesn't have the settling issue. But they aren't as effective as MoS2 when it is working properly.

 

If you talk to a Redline tech, they would recommend the use of "MTL" versus Lightweight Shockproof (and I've heard this before). I like the technical definition for Shockproof though...because it's got a film strength higher than 140W -- with low viscosity characteristics! (LOL...I TRIED to talk a Redline tech into this being the best option for a GL-5-requiring-high-stress-gear-box like the ZFs. They said...Uhhh...not so much.) Obviously, some have used it successfully though!

MTL also has lower viscosity -- like the original 5W-30 oil created for the ZF. And...FWIW, 5W-30 motor oil corresponds to something like a 70W-80 weight gear lube.

Redline also shows a 75W-90 NS GL-5 gear lube. IIRC, the ZF is supposed to have at least a GL-4 class lube. But, I think GL-5 is OK...and better? This one specifies better synchro engagement for smoother shifting -- even in lower temps. And, hey....NS prolly stands for the "Narly ****". LOL!!!

Anything I could try that would make my black-tag shift even smoother sounds like a lube worth trying!

I have been happy with AMSOIL 5W-30 until my last change. I think I got some old stock for a local dealer's basement. I say that because the smooth shifting didn't last NEARLY as long as usual. Plus I called that dealer an he admitted to having it in his basement for a couple of years. (Seems like I've heard from sources like BOB-is-the-oil-guy that oil "expires" just like many other products.) As such, I'm not as hep to the Avon-like-sell-it-out-of-your-basement-tactics of AMSOIL.

Of course, who knows how long ANY lube has sat on a shelf in any given store?