performance chip help
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,332
Likes: 3,245
From: Hartford WI
Reason I think it is a hack job is that you are not optimizing the curve and just adding timing everywhere. To me it is like say that because the pants are 2 inches too long in the legs, I get a couple sizes down.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,332
Likes: 3,245
From: Hartford WI
Agreed, and to expound I'll say this. The 85 uses a computer controlled spark map with about 250 different cells based on load and rpm. Stock base timing is 6 degrees, and any change is a global change. Example, under load at WOT above 3000 rpm you're at 30 plus 6 for 36 total. Change base to 10 and you're at 40 with an imaginary gain.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,332
Likes: 3,245
From: Hartford WI
I would say it depends on what you have done. In my case, you can't simply adjust the timing and be good. I have different injectors, cam, intake, headers, heads so they have to tweak more than timing.I doubt if they left the command idle or whatever it is called the same, it would work as well.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,543
Likes: 3,214
From: Park City Utah
Think about it w/in the context of this thread, and the OP's immediate options; A chip that has consistently been proven to be worthless or "feed it what it wants" that has repeatedly been proven to be effective. Not everyone goes straight from 0-datalogin/tuning.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,332
Likes: 3,245
From: Hartford WI
I suppose you are right in that context. I tend to steer away from those fixes since I have seen many idiots with the "some is good, more is better" mentality. 2 have blown 5.0L engines in their Mustangs. Usually it is "It is running so good, I thought just a couple of degrees more......". Another idiot tried that with Nitrous on his 90+ SHO Tarus. Ran like a raped ape. At least till he found his engine all over the road. My personal history with cheap fixes hasn't been good either. Cheap TFS heads cost me an LPE shortblock which they wouldn't warranty for obvious reasons. Entire driver side valves were loose and one piston kissed the valve when the spring broke from wobbling. Most everytime I tried a cheap fix, it has come back to bite me and bite me. Not usually an "if" but "when" question.
Last edited by aklim; Dec 17, 2014 at 12:18 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,332
Likes: 3,245
From: Hartford WI
Usually, I end up paying LESS to fix the problem the right way than to band aid the thing and later have to fix it right. Now if you are selling the car off, I can see a band aid.
Thread Starter
Navigator
Joined: Mar 2007
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So I listened and I decided not to do the chip but to go another direction. I got a K&N air filter, I am replacing my broke EGR valve and since taking off the plenum is a nightmare due to the BBK throttle bode I figured install an adjustable fuel pressure regulator at the same time. I hear the stock fuel pressure regulators go bad often. I also got the intake temperature relocation kit for two reasons. The first reason the stock connector is brittle and snapped the connection tab and because everyone says its in a bad location and this will help out a lot. please let me know what you think.
PS---the plenum is usually easy to take off but when you install a BBK throttle body it makes it hard due to a so so design.
PS---the plenum is usually easy to take off but when you install a BBK throttle body it makes it hard due to a so so design.
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Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,332
Likes: 3,245
From: Hartford WI
I figured install an adjustable fuel pressure regulator at the same time. I hear the stock fuel pressure regulators go bad often.
I also got the intake temperature relocation kit for two reasons. The first reason the stock connector is brittle and snapped the connection tab and because everyone says its in a bad location and this will help out a lot. please let me know what you think.
PS---the plenum is usually easy to take off but when you install a BBK throttle body it makes it hard due to a so so design.
I also got the intake temperature relocation kit for two reasons. The first reason the stock connector is brittle and snapped the connection tab and because everyone says its in a bad location and this will help out a lot. please let me know what you think.
PS---the plenum is usually easy to take off but when you install a BBK throttle body it makes it hard due to a so so design.
You go to NAPA and the "HELP" rack has a bunch of connectors. Who is "everyone" and why do they say it? The only reason I can think of that says it is in a bad location is that they are trying to get air temp measured before it gets warm so they can fool the ECM into thinking it is colder so there is more enrichment. Being that I am against trying trickery on the ECM, I'd have to say it is a waste of money.
Not sure. I have used ACCEL and now Holley for a TB. Never used BBK so not sure why it would be such a PITA.
Drifting
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,736
Likes: 31
From: Reno Nevada
Haven't had that happen yet where the diaphragm ruptures but that is where a FPR can go bad. I suppose another point is the spring gets weak. That I haven't seen a case of so hard to be certain but not sure there is much more. My adjustable is set to 44 psi since that is what stock pressure is off and the fuel pressure calculations for the injector is often based off.
You go to NAPA and the "HELP" rack has a bunch of connectors. Who is "everyone" and why do they say it? The only reason I can think of that says it is in a bad location is that they are trying to get air temp measured before it gets warm so they can fool the ECM into thinking it is colder so there is more enrichment. Being that I am against trying trickery on the ECM, I'd have to say it is a waste of money.
Not sure. I have used ACCEL and now Holley for a TB. Never used BBK so not sure why it would be such a PITA.
You go to NAPA and the "HELP" rack has a bunch of connectors. Who is "everyone" and why do they say it? The only reason I can think of that says it is in a bad location is that they are trying to get air temp measured before it gets warm so they can fool the ECM into thinking it is colder so there is more enrichment. Being that I am against trying trickery on the ECM, I'd have to say it is a waste of money.
Not sure. I have used ACCEL and now Holley for a TB. Never used BBK so not sure why it would be such a PITA.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,332
Likes: 3,245
From: Hartford WI
Also, as Cliff has pointed out that fuel calculations are based on the CTS, and the ECM only uses the IAT when dealing with EGR. My concern about replacing the regulator diaphragm is that pressure be recorded prior if it is still good to be used as a base to work from. GM used different spring pressures throughout the years that is being replaced with a one size fits all that can throw off the BLM's.
Without the IAT readings, how would my MAP sensor and TPS calculate the volume of air?
Last edited by aklim; Dec 21, 2014 at 06:06 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,683
Likes: 79
From: Chandler AZ
I've had plenty of experience with tuned ports, if you have stock cam and heads, a chip does nothing vs. Just bumping up the initial advance to say 10 to 13 degrees!
I've dyno tested custom proms and made passes over and over at the dragstrip, took asm 3 separate attempts to finally best my 13' initial advance, by one tenth and 1 mph, so definitely not worth the money imo.
Dave
I've dyno tested custom proms and made passes over and over at the dragstrip, took asm 3 separate attempts to finally best my 13' initial advance, by one tenth and 1 mph, so definitely not worth the money imo.
Dave
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,332
Likes: 3,245
From: Hartford WI
I've had plenty of experience with tuned ports, if you have stock cam and heads, a chip does nothing vs. Just bumping up the initial advance to say 10 to 13 degrees!
I've dyno tested custom proms and made passes over and over at the dragstrip, took asm 3 separate attempts to finally best my 13' initial advance, by one tenth and 1 mph, so definitely not worth the money imo.
Dave
I've dyno tested custom proms and made passes over and over at the dragstrip, took asm 3 separate attempts to finally best my 13' initial advance, by one tenth and 1 mph, so definitely not worth the money imo.
Dave
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,332
Likes: 3,245
From: Hartford WI
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,250
Likes: 656
From: San Diego Ca
Hey Dave, long time.
In my opinion our cars are now getting old enough that if still stock the best gains will come from simple and thorough maintenance. Early on I bought a hypertech chip for my 93. As i got deeper into tuning i pulled the bin from that chip and compared it to my stock BLDL.bin.
The actual chip has space for 256,000 bytes, or is it bits, of information, while the actual bin file is 4096 bytes/bits in length. The file comparator showed 8 of 4096 bytes/bits were different between the 2.
The biggest change was the lowering of the fan on and fan off temps to take advantage of the 160 thermostat. That took 4 of the 8 changes. I forget the other 4.
So spending the cost of a chip on a tuneup will give you far more bang for the buck.
In my opinion our cars are now getting old enough that if still stock the best gains will come from simple and thorough maintenance. Early on I bought a hypertech chip for my 93. As i got deeper into tuning i pulled the bin from that chip and compared it to my stock BLDL.bin.
The actual chip has space for 256,000 bytes, or is it bits, of information, while the actual bin file is 4096 bytes/bits in length. The file comparator showed 8 of 4096 bytes/bits were different between the 2.
The biggest change was the lowering of the fan on and fan off temps to take advantage of the 160 thermostat. That took 4 of the 8 changes. I forget the other 4.
So spending the cost of a chip on a tuneup will give you far more bang for the buck.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 435
Likes: 4
From: Guilford NY
HTH.