Cam vs HP?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 7
From: Ft Wayne IN
Cam vs HP?
So I am looking to up my power to the 500-525 bhp range and was wondering I my current cam will support it. This is in a 383ci. LT-1.
Comp Cams 224/230 duration 502 or 532 lift with 1:6 rr's and 112 LSA
Cam has a nice lope and is very streetable with 3,000 stall TQ but not sure if it has enough lift for 500+ Hp. Motor has plenty of torque but feels like it is leaving HP on the table after 4,500-5,000 rpm. And I just went to 3:73 gears but haven't driven it yet do to tranny upgrade at same time, had 3:45's.
If I can keep the cam for HP wanted what heads and intake would get me there? 195cc or 200cc valve size and chamber cc? My intake is an opened up LT-1 with 58mm TB. II know the intakes are pretty good so would I even benefit from a TPIS or aftermarket open plenum carb converted EFI etc.? Running Melrose long tube headers and 3 in. exhaust with crossover.
Comp Cams 224/230 duration 502 or 532 lift with 1:6 rr's and 112 LSA
Cam has a nice lope and is very streetable with 3,000 stall TQ but not sure if it has enough lift for 500+ Hp. Motor has plenty of torque but feels like it is leaving HP on the table after 4,500-5,000 rpm. And I just went to 3:73 gears but haven't driven it yet do to tranny upgrade at same time, had 3:45's.
If I can keep the cam for HP wanted what heads and intake would get me there? 195cc or 200cc valve size and chamber cc? My intake is an opened up LT-1 with 58mm TB. II know the intakes are pretty good so would I even benefit from a TPIS or aftermarket open plenum carb converted EFI etc.? Running Melrose long tube headers and 3 in. exhaust with crossover.
Last edited by C4vettrn; Sep 13, 2015 at 06:30 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,494
Likes: 566
From: Clearwater Florida
...... You need compression ... a cam in the 250 degrees @ .050 range ... and heads around 215-220 cc intake runner ... your intake manifold will probably need some porting too .........
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,098
Likes: 378
From: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
Maybe not 500hp but pretty close. U can take a look at the LT1 builds in a book by TPIS but they all used TPIS cams: How to build Max-Performance Chevy LT1/LT4 Engines by Myron Cottrell.
What i did notice TPIS makes all their builds with 112LSA cams. They claim the 112lsa works much better with the LT1/4th gen EFI. FYI a 112lsa leaves behind a lot of mid-range torque but car is more difficult to tune. For example i have a 109lsa in my 4th gen z28 and have wheel spin problems even with MT DRs at 18psi.
This should give u a idea of what it takes for 500hp. BTW i have to add most small business dynos are in-accurate and better used for a tuning tool than a hp measuring tool.
Hope this helps.
What i did notice TPIS makes all their builds with 112LSA cams. They claim the 112lsa works much better with the LT1/4th gen EFI. FYI a 112lsa leaves behind a lot of mid-range torque but car is more difficult to tune. For example i have a 109lsa in my 4th gen z28 and have wheel spin problems even with MT DRs at 18psi.
This should give u a idea of what it takes for 500hp. BTW i have to add most small business dynos are in-accurate and better used for a tuning tool than a hp measuring tool.
Hope this helps.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 7
From: Ft Wayne IN
I still don't fully understand the effects of LSA I guess I need to read up on all these areas.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 62,180
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From: Athens AL
C7 of the Year - Unmodified Finalist 2021
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I think you'll be very close to 500, that cam is not very different from mine. Mine is fed by AFR 195s. I think that is what you need.
If you want to be comfortably above 500, then maybe a little more lift and a little more duration.
If you want to be comfortably above 500, then maybe a little more lift and a little more duration.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
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From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
LSA is just a sum of numbers based on valve timing events it doesnt necessarily mean the larger the number the smoother it is. Overlap is the killer when it comes to EFI tuning.
195-210comp port afr head + another 10 deg min on your cam if not more to get close. Your intake should be fine, spend time on tuning
195-210comp port afr head + another 10 deg min on your cam if not more to get close. Your intake should be fine, spend time on tuning
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 7
From: Ft Wayne IN
LSA is just a sum of numbers based on valve timing events it doesnt necessarily mean the larger the number the smoother it is. Overlap is the killer when it comes to EFI tuning.
195-210comp port afr head + another 10 deg min on your cam if not more to get close. Your intake should be fine, spend time on tuning
195-210comp port afr head + another 10 deg min on your cam if not more to get close. Your intake should be fine, spend time on tuning
2.) 10 deg. of duration intake and exhaust?
3.) What about lift numbers?
If I keep the cam I have and went with the best heads for my motor what kind of HP would I gain over my OEM with larger valves and mild port/bowl work? Would 195-210 AFR's be to much for the cam I have?
Don't see many on here running Dart pro-1 is that because there not a cnc'ed head?
Last edited by C4vettrn; Sep 14, 2015 at 05:47 PM.
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Team Owner
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1.) Is overlap figured into the LSA?
2.) 10 deg. of duration intake and exhaust?
3.) What about lift numbers?
If I keep the cam I have and went with the best heads for my motor what kind of HP would I gain over my OEM with larger valves and mild port/bowl work? Would 195-210 AFR's be to much for the cam I have?
Don't see many on here running Dart pro-1 is that because there not a cnc'ed head?
2.) 10 deg. of duration intake and exhaust?
3.) What about lift numbers?
If I keep the cam I have and went with the best heads for my motor what kind of HP would I gain over my OEM with larger valves and mild port/bowl work? Would 195-210 AFR's be to much for the cam I have?
Don't see many on here running Dart pro-1 is that because there not a cnc'ed head?
Ask Jim for some AFR.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,065
Likes: 39
1.) Is overlap figured into the LSA? Somewhat. There's a little more to it, specifically valve opening and closing events. LSA means Lobe Separation Angle, take the centerline of the lobes and measure their angle.
2.) 10 deg. of duration intake and exhaust? Yes. I think you could probably use slightly more while still remaining streetable.
3.) What about lift numbers? Get the most lift that you can find while not surpassing the MAX lift of the heads.
If I keep the cam I have and went with the best heads for my motor what kind of HP would I gain over my OEM with larger valves and mild port/bowl work? Would 195-210 AFR's be to much for the cam I have? I think the AFR 195s will do fine with your current cam. You can probably expect 400 rwhp with that. With the 210s you'll definitely need a bigger cam and that'll bring you a lot closer to the 525 bhp that you want, most likely exceed it.
Don't see many on here running Dart pro-1 is that because there not a cnc'ed head? There are a few people who have them, but for a similar price you can get a better flowing head.
2.) 10 deg. of duration intake and exhaust? Yes. I think you could probably use slightly more while still remaining streetable.
3.) What about lift numbers? Get the most lift that you can find while not surpassing the MAX lift of the heads.
If I keep the cam I have and went with the best heads for my motor what kind of HP would I gain over my OEM with larger valves and mild port/bowl work? Would 195-210 AFR's be to much for the cam I have? I think the AFR 195s will do fine with your current cam. You can probably expect 400 rwhp with that. With the 210s you'll definitely need a bigger cam and that'll bring you a lot closer to the 525 bhp that you want, most likely exceed it.
Don't see many on here running Dart pro-1 is that because there not a cnc'ed head? There are a few people who have them, but for a similar price you can get a better flowing head.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 62,180
Likes: 1,740
From: Athens AL
C7 of the Year - Unmodified Finalist 2021
C4 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Figure closer to 15% for ZF6s and 17-18% for the 700/4L60 as a rule of thumb, so you'll want at least about 410rwhp/tq for 500 at the crank.
Dart Pro 1 AL heads are a fine head, but they won't touch AFR flow numbers for a similar size.
I would be thinking about .550 lift or so with 1.6s, no more than 10 degrees more duration on either side.
Dart Pro 1 AL heads are a fine head, but they won't touch AFR flow numbers for a similar size.
I would be thinking about .550 lift or so with 1.6s, no more than 10 degrees more duration on either side.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 2
From: Pittsburgh PA
So I am looking to up my power to the 500-525 bhp range and was wondering I my current cam will support it. This is in a 383ci. LT-1.
Comp Cams 224/230 duration 502 or 532 lift with 1:6 rr's and 112 LSA
Cam has a nice lope and is very streetable with 3,000 stall TQ but not sure if it has enough lift for 500+ Hp. Motor has plenty of torque but feels like it is leaving HP on the table after 4,500-5,000 rpm. And I just went to 3:73 gears but haven't driven it yet do to tranny upgrade at same time, had 3:45's.
If I can keep the cam for HP wanted what heads and intake would get me there? 195cc or 200cc valve size and chamber cc? My intake is an opened up LT-1 with 58mm TB. II know the intakes are pretty good so would I even benefit from a TPIS or aftermarket open plenum carb converted EFI etc.? Running Melrose long tube headers and 3 in. exhaust with crossover.
Comp Cams 224/230 duration 502 or 532 lift with 1:6 rr's and 112 LSA
Cam has a nice lope and is very streetable with 3,000 stall TQ but not sure if it has enough lift for 500+ Hp. Motor has plenty of torque but feels like it is leaving HP on the table after 4,500-5,000 rpm. And I just went to 3:73 gears but haven't driven it yet do to tranny upgrade at same time, had 3:45's.
If I can keep the cam for HP wanted what heads and intake would get me there? 195cc or 200cc valve size and chamber cc? My intake is an opened up LT-1 with 58mm TB. II know the intakes are pretty good so would I even benefit from a TPIS or aftermarket open plenum carb converted EFI etc.? Running Melrose long tube headers and 3 in. exhaust with crossover.
Maybe a 1.7 rocker can help but watch the geometry
I would go to a different cam tho, possibly 6 deg more and atleast .550" lift
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 7
From: Ft Wayne IN
I reread my cam card and it's actually 532/540 on the lift with 1:6 RR. not a lot more but little closer. I was always hesitant of 1:7 ratio and guide wear?
What do you mean by one hell of induction system? I assume my intake and throttle body will work I.e. 58mm and ported LT-1.
Just got back from dropping my trans of at RPM. Man I love that shop I feel like a school kid every time I go there. I forgot the drivers name on this full drag vette that was in there but man O man no expense was spared. This thing had two of the biggest hair dryers out the front I have every seen. I would assume it was close to a $250,000 car.
What do you mean by one hell of induction system? I assume my intake and throttle body will work I.e. 58mm and ported LT-1.
Just got back from dropping my trans of at RPM. Man I love that shop I feel like a school kid every time I go there. I forgot the drivers name on this full drag vette that was in there but man O man no expense was spared. This thing had two of the biggest hair dryers out the front I have every seen. I would assume it was close to a $250,000 car.
Last edited by C4vettrn; Sep 17, 2015 at 04:15 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,098
Likes: 378
From: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
I think the newer LS motors run 1.7 roller rockers. Guide wear is not an issue if the rocker geometry is set up right. U need the correct p-rod length for this. The real problem with higher lift is the vlv stem and vlv spring need the correct length/clearance to operate properly. U need the vlv spring retainer to the vlv seal clearance to be at least 0.060" longer than your max vlv lift. This sometimes is not possible w/o longer vlv stems or cutting deeper spring pockets into the heads.
The more lift u have the greater the spring pressure u need to prevent vlv float also.
Yea the big tire door slammers are pretty cool. And u can see plenty of them at the local strip on brackets race day. But they all get there on a trailer.
The more lift u have the greater the spring pressure u need to prevent vlv float also.
Yea the big tire door slammers are pretty cool. And u can see plenty of them at the local strip on brackets race day. But they all get there on a trailer.