I drove to the post office and when I went to leave the starter solenoid did not work. I could hear the starter enable relay clicking but the solenoid did not click and the starter didn't work. I had to get flat bedded home.

I shorted the 12 volt battery cable connector to the solenoid power terminal and the solenoid pulled in and the engine cranked. Now it all works fine. Scary. Will this thing leave me stranded again?

I don't know what could have happened and why it suddenly works OK. I'd guess a problem in the solenoid. I don't know how these things are built internally. Several months ago when I changed my timing chain I couldn't get the starter out because it was blocked by the trans cooler lines so I don't know what to do with this. I'd like to take the solenoid apart (if that's possible) and see what's happening in there.

 

sounds like a carbon bridge. mine did that hit it with a hammer it worked fine for another year. next time it did it I just replaced it.

 

Which starter motor are you using? OE/GM 10MT original or OE/GM DENSO "compact" or maybe an after-market of some sort?

If old style 10MT there's other than solenoid potential issues OR the solenoid proper OR ....

 

It's the original starter and solenoid that have been in there for 29+ years. Never a hint of a problem until now. About 124,000 miles on the car. I don't know how many starts that comes out to... ;-)

 

Cliff, if your '86 security system is anything like my '84, the "starter enable relay" (as you called it) should not click unless you've had a security system breach. In my FSM, this relay is called the "Starter Interrupt Relay" and is a NC relay, which is located behind the center instrument cluster. Is this the relay you heard clicking?

Jumping the battery positive to the starter solenoid terminal bypasses the Starter Interrupt Relay and the Neutral Safety/Clutch Start switch, which will assure the starter will spin (presuming starter is good).

 

Going with the problem being at the solenoid and not a relay then its going to be a bad connection to the wires leading to the part of the solenoid that pulls the plunger in. The plunger itself has a large copper disc on the end that just shorts the battery lead to the power wire of the starter motor. The solenoids job is the push the gear out and cause the plunger to short the power to the starter motor. Basically its impossible for the starter to start spinning till the starter gear is extended on most starters.

Anyways if the starter didn't click at all then the solenoid has a weak connection on one of the field wires or its a relay like others mentioned.

 

As for trusting it? Id put a starter on it if it left me stranded once and was old

 

Cliff,

Sounds like maybe a "cranking motor tune-up" is called for. GM of course changed the strategy around '89 or '90 and sold components and actually quit cataloging replacement parts.

Here's an '86 10MT parts list



I would likely shop an NOS solenoid in older GM packaging but maybe that's foolishness.

I've done some heavier Remy builds and bought parts from these people with very good service. There should be similar suppliers on the West Coast closer to you. These people's catalog is great. If you search just the OE 1998557 you'll see the kit I'd consider, the yoke/lever is a maybe. If you use the drop down catalog year/make/model and then click on the starter number there will become available a listing of components cross referenced to OE that you could use to shop local. In their left side web content there's an "exploded view" tab, click on SD-300 for an exploded view for the after-market. It's always been 10MT for me but .... Directly under the 10MT is the typical GM solenoid exploded also.

I tried to buy local when I did the heavier Remy product and the locals really wanted to sell a service or a motor. For a 10MT I would think a local shop would be very happy to sell off some "old inventory". That's what I'd likely attempt first. We would generally buy a GM commutator end plate rather than just a bushing, I didn't realize that GM had dropped the drive end bushing from the listing until I did this chart.

http://www.aspwholesale.com/index.php

 

This worked for me.

 

That's a 'Denso kit and the starter being discussed is a DR 10MT/SD300

 

I'm sure this is a Dumb Question! are your Cables, and Connections OK?

 

The contactor disk (as in croz pic) gets arc corroded from normal use. That contactor disk is what takes all arcing and sparking when the key is turned to start and the solenoid is energized. I used to flip that disk over and use it some more but that was my '62 impala quite a while ago and solenoid design may have changed some since. But since then i got a 90's grand prix started by just a good shot of contact cleaner inside the solenoid cover. I couldnt get a screw on one side of the solenoid cover off so i just pried it open enough to get the spray can tube in and sprayed in some cleaner - started up again and i got to be the hero for a family on vacation.

Take a look inside but i recommend a new contactor disk but definitely not a new starter.

 

My knee jerk reaction to wont start was going to be rotating or grinding the disk but I didn't mention that since he didn't hear it click. A bad spot on the disk will still click just not engage the starter. He didn't hear the starter click so I'm going with the wiring in the solenoid's field lines over the disk itself.

 

29 years and 124K I'd think the starter motor deserves a bit more attention than just doing the disc rotation or cleaning of in the solenoid. Like the OP mentioned it's a bit of an aggravating removal so why 'half-a$$' it. The small parts and I'd think an OE solenoid quite inexpensive with a clean and check of the rest. A CE plate, DE bushing, 4 brushes and 3 drive rings/retainer is likely the total parts required. You would of course put an eye on the drive and the yoke/fork.

There's certainly no need for a starter motor.

Many years ago if we needed a starter or an alternator we just 'tuned up' a core we pulled recently and moved on. The core was certainly always an OE. I've bought lots of small parts but never a starter for an old Remy style starter or Remy alternator. I've not bought any for the newer either.

 

Also if you do replace the starter I wouldn't go back factory. Get a gear reduction one. Will crank even when battery if very weak and last longer since it has less strain cranking. I always go with a gear reduction if I can.

 

It seems to be OK so I'm going to drive it and see what happens. This is my daily driver so a problem should show up pretty quickly if there is something seriously wrong.

 

Cliff, If the car started when you jumped a hotwire from the 12 volt power cable to the starter solenoid, wouldn't that mean that you weren't getting 12 volts to the starter solenoid through the ignition wire to make the solenoid engage???..Which would mean the problem is with something on the ignition wire side , like maybe the ignition switch on the lower steering column is going bad??...WW

 

It seemed like the starter solenoid froze up or something like that. After I "broke it loose" it started multiple times with no problems. Prior to that all I heard was relays clicking and the starter solenoid made no sound at all (that I could hear inside the car). Usually starter solenoids are pretty loud, so I would have heard it if it were engaging or even just trying.