Hello everyone,

Right now I have the factory R12 system on my 88. At first I was toying with the idea of converting it to R134a because I have a small leak anyway and R12 is so expensive. After looking through the archives I'm looking more and more closely at this Freeze 12 stuff.. I had never heard of it before.

Has anyone ever tried it without major hardware changes? All of the listings I found in the archives were along the lines of "I changed my compressor and charged it with Freeze 12". All my equipment is working fine, minus the leak. Of course I plan on getting the leak fixed as well, but I was wondering how good of luck I may have charging it with Freeze 12 instead, since it claims full compatibility.

Of course if I contact the manufacturer, they'll tell me to go ahead and do it.. they want to sell their product after all. But the last thing I want to do is ruin perfectly working equipment.

Thanks.

 

OK.......here's the deal. ........there are a lot of refrigerants out there that will "drop in" ........be careful what you put in there........ some of these (and I think "freese-12 is one" ......... are based on PROPANE AND BUTANE TOGETHER!!!!!! ..........Now just imagine a leaky system with a bad set of plug wires or a bad evaporator in a car that has a smoker on board!!!!!! Just play it safe and put the right stuff in there. :seeya

 

He is right, freeze 12 has butane in it and I would not recommend it and neither would my friend who is a licensed A\C refrigerant man.

 

Thanks guys, that's what I want to know.

 

I don't wanna pick a fight here but let's get our facts straight. Freeze-12 is not propane or butane based. It is not flammable! It's 80% R134a and 20% R142b. It is also EPA approved. The EPA banned all flammable refrigerants including Duracool (HC-12) which is gaining popularity in Canada and Europe. Go here and here.

If you went to freeze12.com then you were really at the homepage of H&H Inc which is one of their distributors. They also make the adapter fittings. The company that actually manufactures Freeze-12 is
Technical Chemical Co. They have many tech tips and a decent FAQ there.

The first and best R134a blend developed to replace R12 was CFCRefimax R-12. It works better than straight R134 and Freeze-12 because it has the least amount of R134a in it (59%). The mixture is patented so they're the only company you can buy this mix from. There are many, many benefits to using this refrigerant instead of R134a.

1. It's compatible with all R-12 hoses, o-rings, lubricants, etc. No flushing reqd for conversion.
2. FR-12 matches the cooling profile of R12 so system pressures are close to the original R12 specs. This means equipment will last longer and perform better.

...and that's just the start. There are more specifics in the CFC Refimax FAQ.


[Modified by jmr302, 12:51 PM 9/10/2002]

 

I agree freeze 12 doesn't have flammables in it.A distributor I know that sells alot of it has had no problems with it.And it does cool better than regular R134.Distributor does suggest replacing drier and a good flush.

 

I guess I was miss-informed about freeze-12. I didn't have time to read all the specifics so sorry if this is in one of the sites you mentioned but if I did the R-134 conversion the half-azzed way, it is still working after 3 years, but would like another alternative when I do a rebuild this winter, should I just be able to put the refrigerant you suggested into the system or do I need to replace everything. I am asking because of the problem the R-134 has when the car is at a stand still and it does not cool as well as I would like.

 

Yeah, you can just replace your current refrigerant with Freeze-12 or FR-12. Both are compatible with R12 or R134a hoses and etc. If your accumulator/dryer is more than a few years old then it's not a bad idea to replace that but it's not a required part of the conversion. Do you still have R12 hoses? The EPA mandates that every refrigerant have unique servicing connectors. You can get screw-on adapters for Freeze-12 or FR-12.

R134a is known to have problems, even from the factory, like you mentioned. Either of these two substitutes will cure that.

 

Freeze 12 worked great in my 91 !!! And R-134 is not as efficient as R-12,
the newer cars are sized differently to make up for it.

 

Again, thanks for all the responses.

So it looks like the general concensus is that it's only bad because it may contain butane, but others are sure it doesn't contain butane.

I'll do some research to confirm one or the other. If I find that it doesn't contain combustable material, would any of you guys who say nay change your mind?

Unfortunately all I can do is ask people with experience in this subject how it's worked out. You guys have been really helpful.

 

At Carlisle this year, Gordon Killebrew recommended Freeze 12 rather than do the r-134 conversion.

 

I've used freeze 12 ontop of 12 and have had no problem at all, go figure... :yesnod:

 

Well thanks for setting MEstraight too guys..........I did want to warn about the propane/butane based refrigerants.........I do know one thing .....if it's in there it says so on the can....... AND it says on the can that it's epa approved!.........I have a can of HC12 here in class to show the students....
Again thanks for the clarification :seeya :flag

 

As far as I know Duracool's HC12 has never been approved by the EPA and is still on their poop list (see my first post). The EPA did cite that the main reason for this was that inadequate safety testing. Hydrocarbon based refrigerants work extremely well, much better than R12 even. Duracool contains many additives to reduce flammability. It's not nearly as flammable as pure propane. I would love to see some safety testing though. Duracool has an office in Tennesee. Maybe they're working towards EPA approval.

Regardless it's kind of funny outlawing HC refrigs when cars run on gasoline, a highly flammable substance. No one is freaked out about their fuel system suddenly springing a leak and exploding. On the other hand every motorsports sanctioning body that I've heard of won't allow mechanical fuel pressure gages inside the car either.