CentralCoaster

My neutral alignment is off, there's lots of slop in the shifter, and it slips past second gear. I've taken everything apart already.

MAKING PROGRESS... SEE BELOW
[Modified by CentralCoaster, 12:25 PM 10/5/2002]

1) I know I first have to push a tool through the slot in the plates to set my neutral alignment. But then what? What do I tighten down to keep this aligned?

2) To cure the slop, can I just shim between these? I was told to take it out and use a press. I have access to a press, but what do I press?

3) While I'm here, can I easily install a hurst shifter? Do I have to remove the exhaust for this, or is everything done from inside the car?

4) Do I need any special tools to do any of this?

I've also attached a small video clip, that's the best way to show how loose everything is. I basically need to tighten everything up.



http://www.calpoly.edu/~khasting/images/shifterslop.MPG

Thanks,
Kevin





[Modified by CentralCoaster, 8:28 PM 10/5/2002]

65Z01

The '85 Vette Shop Manual says:
8. Loosen the nuts on the adjusting nuts on the shifter rods.
9. With the tranny and shifter in N, install the aligning pin into the shifter.
10. Equalize the swivels on all three shift levers. Hand tighten the fwd and rear adjusting nuts at the same time with equal force. Do this for all three shifter rods and then torque the fwd and rear adjusting nuts at the same time to specs.

Looks like that torque spec is 22-30ft-lb.

CentralCoaster

ok.. working on it.. this Haynes manual ain't so bad after all.


[Modified by CentralCoaster, 12:57 PM 10/5/2002]

Rich B.

That's a pretty grungy looking shifter...I'd take it out, disassemble it, and clean it...

Then put it back together dry, measure the total "slop" between the plates, and then decide if you need to shim it...

The press is used if, when you put the *new* circlip on the pivot shaft, there is pressure against it. There shouldn't be any.

You would remove the circlip, put a socket or something with a hole in it, over the pin, then press on the body, with all guts installed. Press it right down. It will spring up again slightly when you release the pressure.

It will still need to be shimmed, most likely. I'd try for .015" of free play.

You need a flat piece of steel stock, say - .090" thick, .650" wide, for at least 1 1/4" (plus another inch or two to hold onto), to set the Neutral alignment. Loosen all 6 shift rod lock nuts under the car, at the trans sidecover. make sure trans is in Neutral. Insert the alignment tool in the slot in the side of the shifter (ignore the manual instructions to insert a drill bit - the shifters aren't drilled). Now snug up all the nuts to the slip block, then tighten them. Remove tool.

A Hurst shifter can be modified to work, if you can weld.

Use a light grease to lube the shifter guts when you put them back together. I'm currently using white Lithium grease, but there may be better lubricants.

That's how I do my own shifter(s)...

...But that's just me...Others have different methods...

Rich B.

Judging from your home movie, I'd say you need pressing & shimming...

Your circlip will almost certainly be worn almost in half; get a new one - 5/8" ID, IIRC.

The tin plate you see on the side of the shifter has a loose nut inside the trans tunnel at the rear. Vise-grip time. I replace these with a pop-riveted piece of 1/4" steel strap, tapped for the 8mm x 1.25 bolt.

Be careful pushing the shifter bolts back in. The nuts are only held in place by a thin piece of tin plate; you can push the nuts out of the plate if you're not careful.

Clean & re-thread the shift rods & lock nuts, too. Cleanliness helps the Neutral alignment.

Dropping the X braces and the exhaust isn't necessary, that one nut is the only thing that is a bitch to get at.

...Unless something goes horribly wrong...In which case, I have more detailed instructions...

It a fun job. The results are worth the time. :D

Rich B.

One more observation, and I'll shut up...

...The best shifter in the world is no cure for worn syncros... :crazy: :sad:

CentralCoaster

I was hoping you'd respond Rich. I've got everything out, and yes that cir-clip is halfway worn through. I'll try pressing it down as you said, and then put a thrust washer just behind the circlip.

I still haven't figured out what stops the shift lever... it goes back further than it should in 2nd. It's not going in between the plates, because the entire connector rod moves with it. There's another guy on here who had that same problem. I'll see if I can get ahold of him.

Thanks for your help. :cheers:

Rich B.

That won't help. You need to shim it between the outer housing and the sliding plates. I put the shim at the inside back end of the housing, dry, and use feeler gauges to check it again.

I had some old valve spring shims, I used those.

Going beyond 2nd gear...???...Into some kind of Neutral???

That doesn't sound good at all...That sounds internal... :sad:

CentralCoaster

Well, I did manage to get the assembly pretty snug. One thing that didn't seem to match your description, was the E-Clip. It was curved, like a spring/thrust washer. So there was some force on it. It seems to help snug up one side of the shifter forks against the inner housing.

I also figured out why it's so dirty in there. The rubber boots on the shift rods are torn. I could zip-tie them, but considering how far the rods move, I don't see how this would help. I'm going to check and see if I can purchase these pieces.

I've discovered that the rear bolt on that mounting bracket (the one with the loose nut in the tranny tunnel) is impossible to put in. I'm going to get a long speed nut and cut a slot in the corner of the tunnel, and slide the speednut to the backside of the hole. It's either that or take off the freaking exhaust.

It seems that the adjustment rods have 15mm nuts on both sides. I'll have to buy MORE tools.... I hate metric! :smash: :smash:

All these DIY things get me thinking I should just pay someone instead. But then, I realize that it'd be a PITA for them, and they may try to Mickey Mouse it together to get it done.

About the 2nd gear thing... When it's resting in second gear, the top of the shifter is ~3/8" further back than when it's in 4th. The shifter has a little bit of play in second, so I can pull the stick back a little when it's already in second. This doesn't seem to have any effect, so it may be some kinda play in the linkage. I hope. I'll just be gentle on that shift.

I'm beginning to wonder if someone wound back the odometer on this car based on the overall wear of the shifter assembly, and some other things. :rolleyes:

Thanks for your help Rich.


[Modified by CentralCoaster, 8:35 PM 10/5/2002]


[Modified by CentralCoaster, 8:38 PM 10/5/2002]

Rich B.

Is this the one on the side of the shifter body? On the pivot? Or are you down on the trans side cover?

18carfan says No Longer Available (from GM).

This is where I pop-riveted in a piece of 1/4" steel strap, tapped for 8mm x 1.25. I did have the exhaust off, and removed the catcon hanger bracket so I could get in there.

Mine does this, too. All the 4+3's I've seen/worked on exhibit this to some degree. If yours is excessive, you may have a bad thrust bearing inside the trans.

There's a couple guys on the Forum here who have adapted Hurst Super T-10 shifters to the 4+3, if you choose the Street Super Shifter or the Comp Plus, they come with overtravel adjusters. The downside is that they require cutting & welding to the shifter, and fabrication of mounting brackets.

Mine was never worn enough for me to get involved with adding overtravel adjustment, but I'm sure you could do it.

I'm kind of surprised none of the other shifter guys haven't chimed in here...There's been lots of shifter work on the 4+3 over the last couple of years...That's where I got most of my info from... :D

CentralCoaster

Thanks for your help. I got everything back in, and aligned perfectly. That has been aggravating me for months.

I took the 'vette out on some backroads tonight, with the top off. That smooth shifter left me one less thing to worry about. Before I wouldn't always make it into gear. It's hard to get acquainted with the syncrhos when your shifter is clunky.

Rich, here's a tip for your future students. I got that rear bolt/nut back in that holds the bracing. Tie some sewing thread to a small screwdriver bit or something, and drop it through the hole from the inside. Take that piece off, and tie the thread around the bolt, then untwist the bolt until the sewing thread is on the last untapered thread of the bolt. Pull the thread back from inside the car, and the bolt will pop right in the hole. It's on backwards this way, but who cares...It's much easier to tighten the nut than the bolt. And there's plenty of clearance for the trannytunnel carpet/plastic to go into place.

BTW, the curved E-clip was holding the hollow pivot pin in the shifter body (inside the car).

It seems like it would be easy to prevent over travel in 2nd and 4th by welding an extension piece onto the frontside of the shifter housing. It could then be ground down so the shifter plates hit this if you try to go to far. There might be a place on the backside to do this for 1st and 3rd.

Thanks for you help. Where do I send the bill? J/K :)

sharkface

My 1985 has the 4 + 3 shifter. My problem with the shifter is that it moves excessively to the left when in neutral. Because of this it is easy to confuse gears. If I remember to always keep the shifter favoring the right side, there is no problem. However when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd, it's easy to get lost in the play that is to the left of the neutral gate. Should I bother taking the interior apart and inspecting the situation? Chilton's suggests removing the driver seat to access the left plate cover. Is it necessary to remove the seat? Once I see the shifter, what should I look for other than loose bolts I can access from the cockpit. Does this mean the neutral alignment is off and needs the standard realignment with the guide pin? Or, are all these shifters prone to do this?

sharkface

By the way, thank you who all participated in my previous posts. You were most helpful.