help me find an awd car to sooth my winter driving woes
#21
Race Director
well mileage is a non issue. dont care. as for the functionality your comment does surprise me. do you live in mountainous snowy icy conditions? its been bery bad this winter driving condition wise in alberta canada and ive seen countless 2wd vehicles (front or rear) stuck up an icy incline with 50 cars behind it or stuck in deep 2ft of snow. The awd vehicles around here put on blizzacks or similar and drive almost as if there were no adverse conditions.
I'm not saying all wheel drive it isn't worth the extra expense if the average road conditions are just right, its just that those conditions exist in very few places. There is 6 inches of standing snow where I'm at in Mich. and no one is having any problems with any cars.
#22
I'd do the Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 before I even looked at a stealth. Most of the dodges are beat up piles. The VR4 has held up better.
#23
First, there is a distinction between 4wd and all wheel drive.
I am talking about all wheel drive. The biggest problem is they suffer from tire diameter related issues. Plus all the additional moving parts that wear out, just like a 4wd. Very few circumstances exist where an all wheel drive car, can pass through a roadway, but a front wheel drive car could not. Ultimately they end up not being worth the additional expenses for maintenance and fuel mileage.
I am talking about all wheel drive. The biggest problem is they suffer from tire diameter related issues. Plus all the additional moving parts that wear out, just like a 4wd. Very few circumstances exist where an all wheel drive car, can pass through a roadway, but a front wheel drive car could not. Ultimately they end up not being worth the additional expenses for maintenance and fuel mileage.
I've been driving Audi Quattros for 20 years, Ford Sierra Cosworth at some point earlier and Subaru WRX STi in many occasions, Mitsubishi couple of times. Also Toyota pickups and Land and Range Rovers. Never had any tire diameter problems nor have I worn out drive related parts in any more than any of my rear wheel drives. In fact much less but that is most probably because the 4wd's see most of their punishment in low friction situations which is less tough on them.
For every day winter use in Canada (similar climate to Finland where I live) I would recommend full time 4 wheel drives like the Torsen Quattros, Subarus, Mitsubishis and to my knowledge BMW X-drives. Land/Range Rovers if you like to tinker with repairs a lot
#24
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: Downers Grove Illinois
Posts: 2,474
Received 250 Likes
on
239 Posts
First, there is a distinction between 4wd and all wheel drive.
I am talking about all wheel drive. The biggest problem is they suffer from tire diameter related issues. Plus all the additional moving parts that wear out, just like a 4wd. Very few circumstances exist where an all wheel drive car, can pass through a roadway, but a front wheel drive car could not. Ultimately they end up not being worth the additional expenses for maintenance and fuel mileage.
I am talking about all wheel drive. The biggest problem is they suffer from tire diameter related issues. Plus all the additional moving parts that wear out, just like a 4wd. Very few circumstances exist where an all wheel drive car, can pass through a roadway, but a front wheel drive car could not. Ultimately they end up not being worth the additional expenses for maintenance and fuel mileage.
#25
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: Downers Grove Illinois
Posts: 2,474
Received 250 Likes
on
239 Posts
Sorry, my english is failing me here (3rd language) - what is the difference between 4wd and awd? And please give me an example of the awd cars you are talking about?
I've been driving Audi Quattros for 20 years, Ford Sierra Cosworth at some point earlier and Subaru WRX STi in many occasions, Mitsubishi couple of times. Also Toyota pickups and Land and Range Rovers. Never had any tire diameter problems nor have I worn out drive related parts in any more than any of my rear wheel drives. In fact much less but that is most probably because the 4wd's see most of their punishment in low friction situations which is less tough on them.
For every day winter use in Canada (similar climate to Finland where I live) I would recommend full time 4 wheel drives like the Torsen Quattros, Subarus, Mitsubishis and to my knowledge BMW X-drives. Land/Range Rovers if you like to tinker with repairs a lot
I've been driving Audi Quattros for 20 years, Ford Sierra Cosworth at some point earlier and Subaru WRX STi in many occasions, Mitsubishi couple of times. Also Toyota pickups and Land and Range Rovers. Never had any tire diameter problems nor have I worn out drive related parts in any more than any of my rear wheel drives. In fact much less but that is most probably because the 4wd's see most of their punishment in low friction situations which is less tough on them.
For every day winter use in Canada (similar climate to Finland where I live) I would recommend full time 4 wheel drives like the Torsen Quattros, Subarus, Mitsubishis and to my knowledge BMW X-drives. Land/Range Rovers if you like to tinker with repairs a lot
#26
My 72 year old mom drives a MK1 TT Quattro. Nice car but if you are 6ft or more then try one out to see if you can even see out of it. The roof line is lower than many other cars. Feels weird at first but I guess you can get used to it. Rear seats are pretty much unusable, trunk is super small. Great front seats. Not big fan of Haldex though.
#27
Term usage, like here, by Audi:
Last edited by ToniH; 01-12-2018 at 01:31 PM.
#28
Race Director
#29
Fuel mileage, really? In Corvette Forum? Meh...
Last edited by ToniH; 01-12-2018 at 01:38 PM.
#30
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Ours was red. We weren't partial to any particular color...we found this one locally and it was a 1 owner, adult owned w/80k miles on it. So we bought it. All the colors they offered on that car were fantastic though, and the paint quality and durability is way, WAY better than on a 'Vette. My wife and I tracked the car a couple times, and predictably, it did about as well as the '92 and was about as fun...but the experience was way different (AWD and turbos). Honestly though, the funnest thing in that car was 2nd gear, full boost, all-wheel power slides in the snow. Point it where you want to go and enjoy the blast.
Pics are not that great, and sorry for all the text, but these are the only pics I have of it here at work.
Jackson II1 (002).pdf
Pics are not that great, and sorry for all the text, but these are the only pics I have of it here at work.
Jackson II1 (002).pdf
#31
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Say what?? They're the same car, made in the same factory, with the same materials, by the same people (and robots). How could one "hold up better" than another? It can't. That's like saying that a Silverado held up better than a Sierra. You'll find beater 3000's and beater Stealths...and mint Stealth's and mint 3000's. All depends on where/how what you look for -just like any car.
#32
Race Director
I'll rephrase: I've never heard about these problems mentioned before enough to give a second thought and I have been active in Audi circles for a long time. I suspect you as a desert dweller (just kidding) don't really know what you are talking about and/or you are parrotting some misguided internet wisdom. Winter (slippery) is quite easy for any drive system wearwise. And any of them need maintenance over long period, I don't consider awd maintenance costs anything special.
Fuel mileage, really? In Corvette Forum? Meh...
Fuel mileage, really? In Corvette Forum? Meh...
Did you even watch the video you posted ? Did you see what happens to Audis "crown differential" when the front and rear driveshaft speeds are not the same ?
#33
Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader
Its true that winter weather and slippery terrain will not cause the wear and tear the same way that dry pavement and summertime conditions will. Its when you have traction that there's a problem.
Did you even watch the video you posted ? Did you see what happens to Audis "crown differential" when the front and rear driveshaft speeds are not the same ?
Did you even watch the video you posted ? Did you see what happens to Audis "crown differential" when the front and rear driveshaft speeds are not the same ?
I know the tyre diameter must be quite close to same. No problem at all if you use same size tyres all around and rotate them as usual. If you want to hot rod it then maybe 4wd/awd is not for you.
#34
Race Director
No, I only watched the first 10 seconds where Audi called the AWD system 4WD-system twice.
I know the tyre diameter must be quite close to same. No problem at all if you use same size tyres all around and rotate them as usual. If you want to hot rod it then maybe 4wd/awd is not for you.
I know the tyre diameter must be quite close to same. No problem at all if you use same size tyres all around and rotate them as usual. If you want to hot rod it then maybe 4wd/awd is not for you.
#35
Oh, dear - you are getting desperate aren't you. Ok, you win - AWD is a bad idea, even for Canadians who need to cope with snow and ice. The fact that its 100x better to drive in slippery winter conditions than 2wd is nothing compared to possible tyre costs if you run into a road hazard...
Last edited by ToniH; 01-12-2018 at 03:01 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Rexracer77 (01-15-2018)
#36
Race Director
Oh, dear - you are getting desperate aren't you. Ok, you win - AWD is a bad idea, even for Canadians who need to cope with snow and ice. The fact that its 100x better to drive in slippery winter conditions than 2wd is nothing compared to possible tyre costs if you run into a road hazard...
#37
i cant handle this cold is beating down my fun driving. im not driving my vette in the winter. where i live i get winter for 5 months a year.
help me find something to buy. Here are the rules:
A). it has to be classic and at least a little bit older. It's just who I am, I like buying classic cars that you don't see every day. I'm a child of the 90s having graduated in 1994 so if you can find something from that era even better.
B) it has to be all wheel drive. Here in lies the reason why I'm even bothering to post this. There aren't very many to choose from. Especially ones that look half decent. Maybe I'm missing one and I'm hoping my C4 brothers can help.
C) it would be nice if it was relatively easy for me to wrench on. I enjoy it and it gives me therapy. Not like I'm nuts and need therapy but I mean like for the same reason my wife goes for yoga I like to wrench my car therapy.
D) there is no D. i need a car that i can tinker and improve thats awd and looks good with a nice set of rims and some blizzaks on it.
I considered an awd porsche both the 911 style and the cayanne suv. im told the cayanne drives like a race car.
Anyway, im posting this here because you guys know the itch that I need to scratch. I'm dying to go for a drive in my vette but I can't. I need something else that I can drive. Help a brother out and brainstorm with me.
help me find something to buy. Here are the rules:
A). it has to be classic and at least a little bit older. It's just who I am, I like buying classic cars that you don't see every day. I'm a child of the 90s having graduated in 1994 so if you can find something from that era even better.
B) it has to be all wheel drive. Here in lies the reason why I'm even bothering to post this. There aren't very many to choose from. Especially ones that look half decent. Maybe I'm missing one and I'm hoping my C4 brothers can help.
C) it would be nice if it was relatively easy for me to wrench on. I enjoy it and it gives me therapy. Not like I'm nuts and need therapy but I mean like for the same reason my wife goes for yoga I like to wrench my car therapy.
D) there is no D. i need a car that i can tinker and improve thats awd and looks good with a nice set of rims and some blizzaks on it.
I considered an awd porsche both the 911 style and the cayanne suv. im told the cayanne drives like a race car.
Anyway, im posting this here because you guys know the itch that I need to scratch. I'm dying to go for a drive in my vette but I can't. I need something else that I can drive. Help a brother out and brainstorm with me.
#38
The cost of owning a awd over 2wd is insigficant if your life and income situation is normal. And if its not then maybe one should not consider another fun (awd or anything else) car along the Vette for winter driving.
Last edited by ToniH; 01-12-2018 at 06:17 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Rexracer77 (01-15-2018)
#39
Race Director
There is no "lots of problems that other cars do not suffer from". That is just an ignorant generalization on matter you really don't know much about. There is few more wearable parts over 10+ years, little more fuel consumption but much better driveability over 2wd cars in slippery conditions (wet, snow, ice).
The cost of owning a awd over 2wd is insigficant if your life and income situation is normal. And if its not then maybe one should not consider another fun (awd or anything else) car along the Vette for winter driving.
The cost of owning a awd over 2wd is insigficant if your life and income situation is normal. And if its not then maybe one should not consider another fun (awd or anything else) car along the Vette for winter driving.
#40
Melting Slicks
If you really want AWD classic a late 80's Audi Quattro Coupe. Those things tore up the rally courses back then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_Quattro
Now that's winter driving
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_Quattro
Now that's winter driving