drcook

Has anyone used this rebuild pack, and if so, was it any good ? Pros Cons Yays Nays ?

It is a Motive Gear set. I have a $20.00 off $100.00 coupon and this would be a good use if the parts are any good.

https://www.summitracing.com/oh/part...te?prefilter=1

PatternDayTrader

If the bearings are Timken or SKF then I would do it.

So you know, you are taking on kind of a serious project here. Are you replacing the ring and pinion also ? If the answer is no, then measure your backlash before you take anything apart. Its going to way sloppy compared to spec. Do NOT attempt to adjust it back into spec. Just put it back like it was. Do not discard the carrier bearing shims that come out if they are machined cast iron. Reuse those for sure and add if you need to tighten up the carrier bearing preload.

rjacobs

Motive should be good to go.

I wouldnt measure anything before you take it apart because those measurements wont really mean anything because they will likely be out of spec if your bearings are worn(which I am guessing they are if you are contemplating replacing them all).

You WILL need a clamshell bearing puller which you can get on ebay for under 200. Also some way to press bearings back on.

Change 1 bearing at a time. Re-use the old shims with the new bearings so your pre-load and back lash will stay in spec.

At a minimum run a pattern, but its better to measure with a dial indicator after you are done to make sure its all back in spec.

PatternDayTrader

If he isn't replacing the ring and pinion, and is just rebuilding the carrier and replacing the bearings, then he better measure the backlash and reassemble everything so its exactly like it was before it came apart. Unless he wants it to howl louder than the max radio volume.

He also wont need a clamshell bearing puller if he cuts the old bearings off with a die grinder. Using the clamshell, you need a press and a second set of hands to press the carrier out of the inner race, which is stupid, so everyone just cuts the bearings off with a die grinder. He also wont need a way to press the new bearings on as long as he's careful with a hammer and a socket that contacts the inner race. The only reason you need a clamshell is if you have to remove the pinion bearing and don't want to wreck it, which happens almost never.

Next, you don't reuse the old shims so your preload/backlash stays in spec. You can do that with new shims. You reuse the old cast iron shims (hopefully that's what's there) because when you insert the carrier into the housing, the new shims are way to flimsy to maintain their shape, so they bend and deform. Plus, if you have to tighten up the preload, its impossible to tap a shim into place that's the thickness of a feeler gauge. Impossible. The way you deal with this problem is by putting the flimsy one in first, so its stationary, then gently tap the cast shim into position, and that's how its done.

Last, on a new ring and pinion, you need to run a pattern and measure backlash with a dial indicator. You can have a perfect backlash measurement and a totally fucked up pattern if the pinion depth is wrong. So do both. The one is not a substitute for the other.

PatternDayTrader

Oh one last thing …. You should use a bar style torque wrench for setting pinion bearing preload. The click type will not work right.

rjacobs

When did I mention anything about setting up a new ring and pinion? I did not. I am not ASSuming the OP is setting new gears therefor did not talk about doing gear setup, which is over most peoples head.

I would NEVER cut old bearings off, personally.

And you DO NOT need a press with a clam shell bearing puller. Thats the reason you use the clam shell bearing puller and not a bearing SPLITTER(which does require a press).
​​​​​​https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carrier-Bea...-/152871937247

As far as installing the new bearings, I have a 20 ton shop press and a bunch of adapters, but yea, you can use a piece of pipe the right ID and a hammer, but depending on where the shim is, good luck(and I point back to the clam shell bearing puller vs. cutting bearings off with a grinder).

And again, measuring anything with worn out sloppy *** bearings(hence the reason for changing them) will give him JUNK measurements when re-assembling and they arent needed. Why would I want to measure backlash or pre-load thats WAY out of spec due to sloppy bearings, then re-assemble and go "damn, why is my back lash .008 when before I took it apart it was .08"...you dont...so pre-measuring things with worn out bearings is useless. When assembling with NEW bearings he should be aiming for factory spec(.006-.010 back lash and 14-19 inch lb preload). If he is just changing bearings, re-using the factory shims is the way to go. I have replaced bearings on plenty of ring and pinions and have always re-used factory shims(unless they are damaged, but then I just measure them and assemble a new shim pack of the same thickness). I have the proper dial indicators to make sure I am back to factory spec in all dimensions at the end of the day. He should NOT have to change anything to tighten or loosen pre-load or back lash. Remember the factory shims were put in and set with brand new bearings, not sloppy old bearings.

And the PROPER way to insert shims is as a unit, not attempting to tap shims into place, thats the lazy way to do it. If you need to add or subtract you SHOULD pull the entire carrier assembly out and add your shim to the pack and re-install everything. You would also possibly need a case spreader, but I have had some that I needed to put the spreader on and others that did not need it. You also dont mention if the shim is between the bearing and the carrier(or pinion) or between the carrier(or pinion) and housing... cause if they are under the bearing you aint tapping **** in(and again I point back to the clam shell bearing puller vs. grinding the bearings off).

drcook

already been doing my homework. additionally rklessdriver put this together

http://www.corvetteforum.guru/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=compact&topic_id= 17573&forum=1

per Motive's site, they are Timken bearings. Besides doing the bearings and seals, I am also going to rebuild the posi clutches.

I just have to dust off my old skills and if I get into a jam, I have access to some really great folks in the area. These people are in the club I belong to

http://rumanracing.com/

the other night one of their crew members told me he has a local resource for rebuilding Dana 44's.

I have a mostly complete set of machinist tools and indicators/bases and such, not quite as complete or as good as when I was younger, but good enough. can't be anymore difficult than the guidance systems for nukes that I helped build to help keep you all safe when I was in my 20's :-)

I am not going to replace the ring and pinion, I am keeping it. It is a 3.07, same as is in the car now. I bought it specifically because of the ratio (I got the diff, case, c-beam and driveshaft), just refreshing it before I put it into the car. The driveshaft and halfshafts are going to get new u-joints, local to me is the guy that does the work for Mongoose Motorsports, you should see his bench for doing u-joints. It is purpose built and pushes out u-joints with no chance of damaging the shaft.

I have spent days cleaning the aluminum. I have an Eastwood store close to me. I picked up some Bare Metal Clear (satin finish) as well as some aluminum prep.

I am doing it right. When it goes back in, I am going to put the Banski suspension in that I bought.

drcook

I will also reset the end play on the axle stubs. After I get them out, I'm going to stick the ends down into some evaporust to clean them up. Unfortunately, no one has new ones available anymore. I possibly found one, and Keen has rebuilt ones for $500.00 a pair, but right now the end play isn't bad.

The source told me that the donor car had 60'ish thou miles on it. I am just a firm believer in that if you have something out of the car, you may as well make it right before putting it back into the car because if you don't, you will be taking it out of the car and doing it anyway.

I also know that people on the forums generally don't know the skillsets or innate abilities of people asking the questions. I am just unfamiliar with the quality of the different manufacturers as I have just gotten back into the world of Corvettes since 2016 and am climbing the learning curve regarding C4's. I am learning quick though :-) wait until you see it when it is all done.

PatternDayTrader

You measure the backlash before you disassemble because the ring and pinion are inevitably worn together. Using the old ring and pinon then changing the backlash will guarantee howling, every single time.
That's great you have all the tools. Maybe you should loan them to the OP. Make sure you include the case spreader because that's the only way you will be getting the entire assembly in as one. Otherwise he best do something similar to what I said if he expects this job to get done before the end of this century.
I didn't mention where the shims are located because they only go in one place. Between the case and outer bearing races. I don't know where on earth you came up with between the carrier and the bearing. We are talking about a GM vehicle. I suppose since a pinion shim is under the pinion bearing maybe you thought you could fit one under a carrier bearing. You cannot, and its laughable to suggest otherwise.

PatternDayTrader

If you are not replacing the ring and pinion, then regardless of what this other guy is saying, you better make sure that backlash is the same when it goes together or it will howl like you cant believe. Probably no action will be required on your part besides replacing the bearings, and reassembling everything as you found it. But, if you have say .015 before you disassemble, and say .008 when you reassemble, then its going to howl. That's just what happens when you change the positioning of two gears that have already worn together.

PatternDayTrader

Oh yeah now I remember you absolutely stole the kent moore tool for that !

rjacobs

gear whine or howling or what have you is generally caused when back lash or pre-load goes way out of limits due to worn bearings...

So you take measurements, which are probably out of spec due to worn bearings, and put new bearings in which will most likely bring everything back to factory spec(again using the factory shims), then try to adjust everything to the old out of spec measurements? Sounds like the most back asswords way of doing things to me and something I would personally NEVER do. If a ring and pinion is so "worn together" that it howls and makes noise at factory spec numbers(which I posted above), they need to be replaced, not shimmed to make them quiet.

And as far as WHERE the shims go, yea there are some above and some below the bearings. I still stand by saying trying to "tap shims into place" is the lazy way about shimming things. What happens when you need to "tap a shim in" one side and pull a shim from the other to move the assembly left or right? Oh thats right, you have to PULL THE WHOLE CARRIER...

And im out of this thread...

Good luck to the OP, it sounds like he knows what he is doing.

barchetta1

This is why I love this forum. The knowledge here is fantastic. Although some of it is less than accurate, you just need to watch out for those posts.. ugh.

PatternDayTrader

I measure it before disassembly because it only takes a minute or two and it gives me a very good indication of just how sloppy things have become. I don't know where you got the idea that I re shim everything back into spec. In post #2, I clearly stated not to do that. Put it back like it was, with the original shims. Backlash will still very likely be out of spec, but as long as its the same as before disassembly, then leave it. Obviously, if a bearing has totally failed, then there's no reason to measure anything before disassembly.

Tapping the shims in is the only way to do it without a case spreader. The only way you can install the carrier and shims as an assembly is if you don't have enough bearing preload. You can try tapping the entire assembly into place, shims included, but its to much for one set of hands. The answer is put everything into place except one cast iron shim, then with both hands available, carefully tap the last cast shim into place where it belongs. There's nothing else to even talk about as it relates to the shimming issue, unless its making sure the outer race is squarely seated on the bearing rollers and not cocked to one side. The cast shims have a tapered edge on side, which helps allow it to move into position for this exact reason.