Originally Posted by 1985 Vette

Wow, Commiefornia is out of control. I feel for you in CA, but please don't move to the NW; you wouldn't like the 8 months of rain anyway.... Even in SSR of WA, all emission testing ends after 2019. This is thanks to the Republicans in the legislature. So for those who say R's and D's are the same; you are wrong. If the D's had their way, WA would be another CA.

Originally Posted by JrRifleCoach

This could hurt a lot of people.

Not to mention those other liberal states that see kali get away with collecting more taxes and fines...

Originally Posted by KyleF

I am not OK with that at all. Again, my moms car or even my son's best friend's Dad's van does not prove anything. You are also overlooking what this is going after. Running an Illegal business. That is not just a fine. That is investigation involving the IRS in to back taxes. Horrible rationalization. It should require a series of vehicles over a period of time (weeks, months) along with visible activities before any fine is issued or further investigation warranted. Running an illegal business it a big deal when you get caught. It's not like getting a drunk in public fine.


Really, I am calling total BS on this. We have building codes for a reason. It's in the best interest of everyone's safety. God forbid your kid is friends with a the neighbor's kid and it happens to fall when they are in proximity to it. Or it falls, causes an electrical short and knocks over a gas can... big fire in your neighborhood, spreads to other houses...etc. You see where I am going with this. Structures should be permitted and inspected.I do support building codes that support general public safety, and these are usually area specific for a reason. To which you seem to agree but...

The building inspector should be working with the public's best interest at heart. Including yours. So, it's not between said owner and inspector only. Bad way to look at it. Its between the owner and the public.

My personal use is also helping out friends and family. With any of my tools. If I am not profiting from it, no matter if its a guy I know no better than from these boards, it's still not a business.

I can't believe you would actually be OK with getting a ticket for changing your mom's oil, brakes, or other part just because you put it up on a lift. I know you wouldn't. That is ridiculous. Really, read what you just wrote. You would be OK if a cop comes by and tickets you for changing brake pads on a lift rather than a jack. Which may not matter because this is not a law about lifts... you are actually stating you are OK with getting a ticket for changing your moms brake pads.

Guilty of having another car, yes. Guilty of operating illegally, no. What are you even arguing here... still that putting your brother's car on a lift dictates you did something illegal? Let's just be clear here, I am saying putting anyone's vehicle on your lift does not in itself prove ANYTHING. It needs to be a consistent observation of multiple cars over time. Never a one time thing. It is the ambiguity of the law that bothers me the most and the fact that just putting your family members car up one time can result in a ticket. Let's not lose sight of the actual law here. People keep talking about lifts, but the way the law is written, any tool you have could be deemed "uncommon" and get you a fine. So, that power brake bleeder you just used on your own car could get you the same ticket. Just as changing your mom's brake pads with "common" tools would as well. The law is targeting illegal businesses by infringing on the rights of the individual.




Well, by the new law this is a mute point. It is illegal to install any aftermarket components on the exhaust system. Pretty straight up right there. I don't know about the reality of this situation. When I did this the exhaust was dropped at home and driven to the exhaust shop. However, I put flex pipe and glasspacks held in temporarily with hangers to make the 5 mile drive. Though, I don't really relate these two laws very closely. The exhaust law actually has nothing to do with what you would do on your own property. You could still have a vehicle you race with modified exhaust, or open headers, and you would be free to utilize it on your property and transport it on a trailer to a race track. Just can't operate on public roads. What you do with it at home is not affected.

Let's just review what you are OK with:

Car not registered to you on your lift - Illegal
Car not registered to you on a jack - Illegal
Car not registered to you with the hood up - illegal
Working on your own car registered to said address with a tool deemed uncommon by a police officer - illegal.
The first time it is seen.

I will never be OK with this. There is no rational that would ever make any sense why I can't use whatever tools I have at my disposal to change my mom's brake pads on my property. Nobody can demonstrate how a bazooka or AK-47 would be used to change pads on a car... but I can justify the use of wrenches, sockets, ratchets, C-Clamps, Jack, Lift, Stands, Pad Spreader, Brake Bleeder, and maybe a puller to free those pesky rotors. 3 or 4 of those I could say are not common. Which would get you a fine... ON YOUR OWN CAR. You state you are OK with this law. I will never see why.

Originally Posted by 1985 Vette

Wow, Commiefornia is out of control. I feel for you in CA, but please don't move to the NW; you wouldn't like the 8 months of rain anyway.... Even in SSR of WA, all emission testing ends after 2019. This is thanks to the Republicans in the legislature. So for those who say R's and D's are the same; you are wrong. If the D's had their way, WA would be another CA.

Originally Posted by KyleF

I have no issues with emissions testing though. I don't see that as a personal freedom and as something (such as building codes) that is greater for the common good. I like the states that roll off the requirement at 25 or 30 years old - when a state legally observes the car as a classic. Plenty of new cars capable of making 700+hp and passing emissions. So, it has been proven power can be made and be emissions legal. I also don't mind states that say the catalyst can't be modified... but who give a flying flip over mufflers? We have noise restrictions and if my (fill in the blank brand) cat back sounds better and meets the legal limit, what is the problem?

To use this as a metaphor, I see the car you own the same as the tools... own any car/tool you want. Use said car/tool how you want. Operate it illegally (drive recklessly or cut the emissions off/run a business) then you get fined. Owning a ZR1 Vette doesn't in and to itself say you are a reckless driver no more than having a lift (or any other specialty tool) says you are operating a business. It has to be observed.... and to me just one or two cars sporadically worked on at your residence shouldn't incriminate you any more than being observed in a hot sports car.

Originally Posted by aklim

As long as you keep it under the (insert legal sound limit), you can rice it all you want.

Originally Posted by aklim

Used to be, we went to the nearby tavern for Brats and Brew for lunch. Some azzhat showed up for 3rd shift drunk every day, made tons of mistakes, got fired and after that, zero tolerance for alcohol.

Originally Posted by aklim

Talk to the actuarial people. It says you are more likely to cause a claim in a ZR1 at 19 than a Toyota Camry at 45 and your rates go up.

Originally Posted by aklim

And where is that line drawn again? I can run a repair shop in my garage and I only work on cars that are owned by friends and family. What does it take to be in that unique circle? Leave a few bucks in the coffee can on the table. That is EXACTLY the logic someone who did side work said.

What part of "between you and the building inspector" do you not understand? He comes along and finds violations, you two work it out. It falls on your kids, that is your problem. My job is to make sure that MY kids don't go somewhere dangerous and if it involves your garage, I will have to do MY job. Building inspector can fine you, make you tear it down, etc, etc if he thinks it violates some code but you two hash it out. I won't get involved.

That is his job. As long as it doesn't affect my living conditions in ways appreciable to me like where you have commercial traffic and the crap it brings or screws up my property value, I don't think I will bother to report you.

I see. How are we defining "friends and family"? Ask the hooker and all her "Johns" are her friends. Some companies define "family" as someone who can claim you or you can claim someone on the tax form. What you want to do is make a loose enough definition that it sounds like something but is meaningless in reality so you can't be called a hypocrite but you have enough wiggle room to make it do what you want.

IF I did choose to have a lift which makes things more efficient and promise that I will only use it for my own registered vehicles and a cop tickets me when he comes by and sees your car on it, I have ZERO grounds to complain.

You want to talk of ambiguity and you want to introduce ambiguity? How does that work? What I said has no ambiguity. Can't produce ownership papers for the car on your lift when the cop comes, get a ticket. There is no thought process needed, no argument or doubt. You what to talk family? What is the line? Sibilings and parents? How about 1st cousins? 2nd cousins or further? How about ex-spouse of a 3rd cousin? What about my daughter's husband's adopted son? Friends? What is that definition? My buddy's cousin? My 20 year friend? Again, where do you draw the line? How about the guy I met at Autozone who chatted with me for 20 minutes and promised to make it good for me if I changed his exhaust? Think you are being targeted? Get a license and be a LEGAL business and operate in a sanctioned area.

MOOT, not mute point. I totally agree you can have what you want on YOUR property. On public roads, well.....

And you are ok with me having a full mechanical shop on residential property as long as I promise it is for "friends and family only". Give me a break. Lifts aren't everyday items you see in a residential area and the few I have seen have been used for "donations and favors". What is it you expect me to think? That the next one isn't for personal use? When was the last lift YOU ever saw that was STRICTLY used for personal vehicles like you SEEM TO CLAIM but want exceptions?

Originally Posted by KyleF

This is overbearing government infringing on your personal freedoms. I don't care about a lift, I don't even own one... and the law isn't just about lifts. Look past the lift man.

Originally Posted by aklim

I care about my personal freedoms as much as anyone. As they say, I support your right to swing your fist which ENDS where my nose begins. Case in point. We lived in the apartments at one point. I'm on the front corner, other guy is on the rear corner upper level. Theoretically, it don't matter what you do. He had a different drugged up girls come buzzing the door in the wee hours of the night. Told him GENTLY about it and he was like "You come in like the mother fawking po-leece....", so OK. Complaint time it is, every time it happens. Find other neighbors to support my case. If he could keep it till 2100 hrs, I have no issue. After 2100 to 0800, we have a problem. Your drugged out hookers who look for you after doing their rounds don't concern me till they disturb me.

Originally Posted by KyleF

I used to live in a town that had noise ordinances from 22:00-06:00. That I understand. No need to run the air compressor that late, was easy to plan around. That makes sense... but to what we are discussing, does having a compressor (again not a common tool) determine I will operate it illegally? No sir, it does not and I was allowed to have it.

Originally Posted by aklim

I DO NOT agree that owning a gun, lift, scanners, saw, boat, etc, makes you a criminal.

Originally Posted by aklim

I'm only saying that I don't agree you should be able to run a shop in a residential area.

Originally Posted by aklim

To that end, if there is a complaint and the cop comes by and the car is being worked on whether on the lift, pulley, jacks, etc, you get a ticket if it isn't your's. No different from the noise ordnance. Cop gets a complaint, they send a car around and if they hear it, you get a ticket.

Originally Posted by aklim

BTW, do YOU personally know anyone with a lift that hasn't had a car they don't own on it? I don't. Every one I know that has one starts out with "It's personal" and then a friend comes over and another and a friend of a friend and pretty soon, it's a cottage industry. Maybe it's the weekends only or after hours for a few bucks. If you live in the countryside, it's not a big deal. When you are opposite me and cars are piled up on the street, it's another story.

Originally Posted by KyleF

Supporting the law as it is written, you do.

Yea yea yea, we all agree on that, but you support possession of a tool defining that you run a shop rather than... you know law enforcement having the burden of proof.

Exactly, that doesn't define running an illegal shop. I have helped a guy who's wife works with my wife fix his blower motor and pig tail in my driveway. I have replaced the brakes on my son's best friends dad's mini van, set the timing on a kids camaro that played on the local high school tennis team that my brother coached and filled my mothers washer fluid while she was visiting.

Yes I live in a neighborhood

No, I do not run a shop, nor did I receive any compensation for any of the above. All is illegal in your eyes and California's eyes now.

Yes I do. He is a member on Thirdgen. I have been to his house... never seen anyone's car but his on it. I would have more understanding of banning lifts on residential property than the way the law is written. You are still hung up on lifts. I am still hung up on the definition of "common". You have chosen to focus on the lift as being uncommon, but so is a host of other tools we all have and use.