C4 Tech/Performance L98 Corvette and LT1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine

C4 Weak Brakes

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Old Jan 23, 2019 | 05:00 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Red Sleeper
The 96 is a little bit different animal. Maybe they quieted the growl.
Good point, because I bet they got a lot of complaints and questions about it. I'll have to remove that hatch and drive around sometime to find out if I can hear it that way.
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Old Jan 23, 2019 | 07:02 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by MatthewMiller
Good point, because I bet they got a lot of complaints and questions about it. I'll have to remove that hatch and drive around sometime to find out if I can hear it that way.
No doubt they got plenty of complaints. It's very noticeable and you can feel it in the brake pedal. My guess if you can't hear it or feel it they probably just decided it wasn't necessary. If you have the service manuals for your year it might talk about it. My 1992 manual mentions it.
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Old Jan 23, 2019 | 07:28 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Red Sleeper
No doubt they got plenty of complaints. It's very noticeable and you can feel it in the brake pedal. My guess if you can't hear it or feel it they probably just decided it wasn't necessary. If you have the service manuals for your year it might talk about it. My 1992 manual mentions it.
Like I said, I do have the service manuals for my 96 and it specifically says the test happens at 4 seconds in, just like you said. But come to think of it, I never hear the ABS pump working, even when it's in heavy use (see avatar pic). Maybe Chevy just padded and soundproofed that well better for the last year of the C4.
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Old Jan 24, 2019 | 10:40 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Red Sleeper
The 96 is a little bit different animal. Maybe they quieted the growl.
Nope. Had my 96 for three weeks now and it kinda scared me when this kept happening right when I took off until I learned what the noise is.
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Old Jan 24, 2019 | 12:14 PM
  #25  
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With my first Vette, 94, the brakes were wooden, firm pedal, just way more force required then should be to stop the car. Since I got the car for HPDE/Auto-X, and I assumed the pads that came with the car were cheap junk, I quickly put full race pads, Porterfield R-4's. This 100% fixed the pedal feel/stopping power.

Fast forward, I got the 92, it had Brembo rotors and Hawk black/ or +Ps, something like that. Brakes were "ok", not great by any means. My wifes RDX SUV had better feel on stock pads. Tossed on another set of R-4s, and instant fantastic braking.

This isn't to say there isn't some other problem, but it sure is a fast way to cure the problem. Now the shrill sequel when braking that makes people think your car is going to fall apart at every light, that's another issue.

Last edited by Rexracer77; Jan 24, 2019 at 12:17 PM.
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Old Jan 24, 2019 | 12:49 PM
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I have an older C3 that had issues with the master cylinder that would do what you are describing. I could not lock the wheels up, but it slowed me down well until one day. While driving at 70 getting off at a 25 mph clover leaf the pedal suddenly felt like it had a brick behind it. Thank goodness that I had a functional Parking brake and a four speed .

After getting home I replaced the Master Cylinder and all my braking problems went away. It turned out to be a defect inside the master cylinder that caused my brake failure.

The ABS systems are very complicated and frequently people go after the more expensive (and less understood) components looking for problems. I suspect your problems lie in the master cylinder of your Corvette. Try replacing it and see what happens. The other thought is to put a pressure gauge on your braking system and see what the pressures are at all four corners. Seeing the same pressure at all four corners would clear up any ideas of blocked brake lines. Try to inspect your brake lines for any bulges or irregularities. I found a bulge on my C4 near the ABS unit in one of the brake lines. It looked like a snake that had eaten an olive, turned out there had been water in the fluid that froze and expanded the brake line. Brake lines can rust shut internally if water is left in the lines for any period of time. You need to be sure that you have equal pressure coming out of all four brake lines.

I wish you the very best in finding this problem, Brake issues can ruin your day in a big hurry!
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Old Jan 24, 2019 | 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ctmccloskey
I found a bulge on my C4 near the ABS unit in one of the brake lines. It looked like a snake that had eaten an olive, turned out there had been water in the fluid that froze and expanded the brake line. Brake lines can rust shut internally if water is left in the lines for any period of time. You need to be sure that you have equal pressure coming out of all four brake lines.
A good thing to look at, but you would still be able to lock the other three wheels.
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Old Jan 24, 2019 | 08:54 PM
  #28  
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Well, just got it back from the shop and problem mostly solved. Had the brake fluid flushed and the whole system properly bled. MUCH better now, at least driving home from the shop. I'll try it out on the mountain roads nearby Saturday, I hope. ABS checked out good, as did master cylinder and booster. I may still replace the Hawk pads with EBC Yellow Stuff. Curious to know if anyone has used them. But at least now stops more like a Corvette should. Also considering replacing my Conti Extreme DWS tires with Firestone Firehawk Indy 500's. Looking for better steering response. A little more grip wouldn't hurt either. Tire Rack rated them really high. I only bought the Contis because needed tires quick and that was all Discount Tire had at the time. Don't need an all weather tire. I was originally planning on getting Conti Extreme Sport but sounds like the Firestones would be more what I want. Cheaper too! Only downside is I can't get them from Discount Tire.
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Old Jan 24, 2019 | 08:56 PM
  #29  
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I couldn't hear the self test on my 92 either but turns out it was just quieted by the sound deadening.
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Old Jan 24, 2019 | 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rbender52
Also considering replacing my Conti Extreme DWS tires with Firestone Firehawk Indy 500's. Looking for better steering response. A little more grip wouldn't hurt either. Tire Rack rated them really high. I only bought the Contis because needed tires quick and that was all Discount Tire had at the time. Don't need an all weather tire. I was originally planning on getting Conti Extreme Sport but sounds like the Firestones would be more what I want. Cheaper too! Only downside is I can't get them from Discount Tire.
FWIW, the Conti ExtremeContact Sport is about the best non-competition tire you can put on your Corvette. Tons of dry grip, and it comes with the bonus of best-ever wet grip. It would be better at both than the Firestones. That's not to say the Firehawks are bad tires, but the Conti is in another league both in the wet and the dry.
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Old Jan 25, 2019 | 10:34 PM
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That's good to hear as I would prefer to buy from Discount Tire. How would you rate steering response/turn in?
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Old Jan 25, 2019 | 11:13 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by rbender52
That's good to hear as I would prefer to buy from Discount Tire. How would you rate steering response/turn in?
I cannot say from personal experience because I haven't driven on them. My guess is they are in the middle of the sharp-steering specturm: probably sharper handling than the Firestones, but not razor-edge sharp. I have driven on the DWS tires quite a bit (I've had them on daily-driver VWs for at least 15 years), and the Speeds will definitely have faster response than those. The DWS is a pretty slow-response tire, and also likes a lot of slip angle to generate grip. They do have very good grip for an all-season that can actually deal with some snow, but they are not sporty feeling. So I understand your desire to get off of them.

My endorsement of the Conti Speed comes from the feedback of a number of top autocrossers, and seeing their times against mine on my full-out competition tires (BFG Rival S, tied for fastest tires in the class). They are pretty damn close in times for a tire that's a legit street/rain tire. And in all the classes that require 200-treadware tires, the Conti Speeds are what everyone runs when it rains - they are hands-down the fastest in the wet. The only thing they don't do well is winter/snow/ice. They aren't supposed to be driven in temps below 40F. I think you could drive them down to freezing, but that's about it (based on my experience with other, similar tires). But it didn't sound like you would need that quality.
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Old Jan 26, 2019 | 06:54 PM
  #33  
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On my way to Discount Tire to order Monday. Many thanks for the input;
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Old Jan 27, 2019 | 07:22 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by MatthewMiller
They do have very good grip for an all-season that can actually deal with some snow, but they are not sporty feeling.
My corporate car right now has them, I wouldn't say the DWS should include that S, at least in Fiesta sizes. They get by in the snow, but they're not even close to even the Discount Tire Arizona brand in the white stuff. I spend a lot of time spinning tires and going nowhere, and thats with an engine sitting over the drive axle.

That said, I've got the DW sitting at home waiting for the Corvette. Really decent marks in the dry, and seemingly unbeatable in the wet for its class.

Last edited by jefnvk; Jan 27, 2019 at 07:23 PM.
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