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Mustang Manual Transmission

 
Old 02-03-2019, 05:04 PM
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Korsou
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Hello Guys,

I have a 1988 Vette with a 4+3 tranny. As in Spain it is very difficult to get parts or upgrades for the Doug + Nash I am still considering doing a tranny swap.

Have been looking for a ZF but those are also extremely hard and incredibly expensive to find or almost impossible in Spain. I came across a 1998 Mustang 4.6 V8 Cobra SVT Borgwarner T45 5 Speed Gearbox 0000338469

This Mustang tranny is in Europe so it is cheaper to get. Brining something from the US is exponentially expensive.

Does anyone know if this will fit my Vette? Has anyone done it? Does anyone know if this tranny will hold the power?

Thanks People
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Old 02-03-2019, 05:43 PM
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No, it won't fit especially as a bolt-in. There will be a number of things that are not the same. Bolt pattern, input shaft diameter and length. Transmission case length, and no provision for attaching the C-beam to the trans tailshaft. And the front u-joint may be different so that may mead modifying the driveshaft.

Even using a ZF 6-speed from an '89 or later Corvette will create some minor installation issues. But it will be much easier. There are a couple of companies that make a 5-speed or 6-speed trans that will bolt in, but they are pretty pricey even in the US.

The 4+3 can handle the power of your '88 L98 even with some upgrades. The 4-speed portion is made up from a Borg-Warner Super T-10 and its a good trans. The OD unit was used to be able to provide good gasoline mileage figures that were required because of CAFE requirements in the US. The OD unit doesn't really like to be abused.
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Old 02-03-2019, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by c4cruiser View Post
No, it won't fit especially as a bolt-in. There will be a number of things that are not the same. Bolt pattern, input shaft diameter and length. Transmission case length, and no provision for attaching the C-beam to the trans tailshaft. And the front u-joint may be different so that may mead modifying the driveshaft.

Even using a ZF 6-speed from an '89 or later Corvette will create some minor installation issues. But it will be much easier. There are a couple of companies that make a 5-speed or 6-speed trans that will bolt in, but they are pretty pricey even in the US.

The 4+3 can handle the power of your '88 L98 even with some upgrades. The 4-speed portion is made up from a Borg-Warner Super T-10 and its a good trans. The OD unit was used to be able to provide good gasoline mileage figures that were required because of CAFE requirements in the US. The OD unit doesn't really like to be abused.
Hello C4Cruiser,

Thanks for ypur response.

Ok, the T45 is out the door.
The ZF would be bice to have but the price is the problem and as you said the 5 or 6 speed swaps available are out of my budget as well.

Do you know any trans (BMW, Nissan or so) that are adaptable? Have seen some adaptor plates for LSX engines but not for L98. Any for the L98?

Thanks a lot once again
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Old 02-03-2019, 07:49 PM
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Any transmission for an older Chevy V8 could be mated to the engine but the key feature that isolates you to a 4+3 or ZF6-40 is the mount for the C-Beam. It is a load piece of the drive train and prevents the differential from rotating up or down. The only car that has a transmission the is a "direct" drop in is a 84-96 Corvette. Outside of that you are adding brackets, changing drive shaft parts and potentially expanding the transmission tunnel. The difference from L98,Lt1 to LS engines is the length of the input shaft. If memory suites me correct the LS requires a shorter input shaft with a change to the pilot shaft. I know from looking into options of a T56 into a V6 firebird I used to have. Needed the input of the LT1 for reach due to the trans mount plate.

What issues are you having with your current transmission? If none is this asking to prepare for power increase? If the only reason is because you are concerned about lack of parts, a trans swap for a used transmission will end up being more costly than just ordering T10 parts from the US ans paying shipping and tarrifs
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Space387 View Post
Any transmission for an older Chevy V8 could be mated to the engine but the key feature that isolates you to a 4+3 or ZF6-40 is the mount for the C-Beam. It is a load piece of the drive train and prevents the differential from rotating up or down. The only car that has a transmission the is a "direct" drop in is a 84-96 Corvette. Outside of that you are adding brackets, changing drive shaft parts and potentially expanding the transmission tunnel. The difference from L98,Lt1 to LS engines is the length of the input shaft. If memory suites me correct the LS requires a shorter input shaft with a change to the pilot shaft. I know from looking into options of a T56 into a V6 firebird I used to have. Needed the input of the LT1 for reach due to the trans mount plate.

What issues are you having with your current transmission? If none is this asking to prepare for power increase? If the only reason is because you are concerned about lack of parts, a trans swap for a used transmission will end up being more costly than just ordering T10 parts from the US ans paying shipping and tarrifs
Hello Space 387,

You guys are a wealth of knowledge. I am amazed.

Well, I am in between choices really. I love to have the 6 speed as I will be cruising around Spain hopefully soon. I will be performing some power adders to the car. The 4+3 is leaking, makes grinding noises sometimes, the shifter is "loose" and there are some "hacks" performed to it.
I could get parts to rebuilt the tranny and OD but how reliable and how dependable will it be? For cruising, for burn-outs, for some race courses (SCCA type) etc etc.
I just want to spend the money once and not have to rebuilt tranny and OD and after some enjoying the car I have to rebuilt the OD or so again. I hope I explain myself.

I have read all over that the ZF tranny is very strong (need to clarify the blue and black differences) and it is a direct swap, expensive but direct. Have seen the T500 or T600 but those are even more expensive.

Can any ZF be bolted to my 88 without modifying the flywheel etc? Would I use the same starter as I do now? I found someone selling a complete swap with driveshaft and all and am considering it.

The advice from all of you is key for me to pull the trigger.

Thanks again

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Old 02-04-2019, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Korsou View Post
Hello C4Cruiser,

Thanks for ypur response.

Ok, the T45 is out the door.
The ZF would be bice to have but the price is the problem and as you said the 5 or 6 speed swaps available are out of my budget as well.

Do you know any trans (BMW, Nissan or so) that are adaptable? Have seen some adaptor plates for LSX engines but not for L98. Any for the L98?

Thanks a lot once again
wasnt our zf6 used in bmw 850 ?
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by dizwiz24 View Post


wasnt our zf6 used in bmw 850 ?
Hello dizwiz24,

I read that and have asked a reputable tranny builder in Spain a month ago and he says he has not been able to find that info. I wrote to ZF in Spain and no answer at all

I am still searching for confirmation.

Thanks
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Old 02-04-2019, 01:10 PM
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The T45 is unique and only bolts to a Ford 4.6 bell housing. To install anything but the 4+3 or zf6 will require fabrication. T56 was used by Vauxhall, T5 and Tremec 5 speeds can be found in camaros and 5.0 mustangs brought to Europe by U.S. servicemen. If you can have a racing bell housing " Scatter Shield" modified for multiple transmission bolt patterns; may increase your options. I would find American car clubs for help.
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Old 02-04-2019, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevova View Post
The T45 is unique and only bolts to a Ford 4.6 bell housing. To install anything but the 4+3 or zf6 will require fabrication. T56 was used by Vauxhall, T5 and Tremec 5 speeds can be found in camaros and 5.0 mustangs brought to Europe by U.S. servicemen. If you can have a racing bell housing " Scatter Shield" modified for multiple transmission bolt patterns; may increase your options. I would find American car clubs for help.
Hello Kevova,

What year camaros & mustangs use T5? Are those bolt on? Reliable? How much power can they hold?

​​​​​​Do you have any examples for the scatter shields?

Thanks
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Old 02-04-2019, 02:14 PM
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Hello again Korsou,

It sounds like you need to come to the U.S. and buy the exact parts and have them shipped home. It would probably be cheaper that way. My brother used to fly to Europe and bring back hard to find Motorcycle parts for me and a few friends. They got a short vacation and got exactly what they wanted and saved a lot of money all at the same time.

I have a Four Speed in a Big Block C3 and I would love to go to a five or six speed but the prices are ridiculous. They are talking about $3000 for the whole transmission kit designed specially to fit my big block and over 550 ft pounds of torque. Quality does not come cheaply, I am saving my money for the six speed with my choice of ratios so I can have two overdrive gears allowing my car to use the torque it makes. My daughter has a 2011 Camaro with a six speed and that takes some getting used to. The transmission in the six cylinder cars likes hers is not rated for the LS engine making 450 hp, the V8 cars use a modern 6 speed rated for higher horsepower applications.

The idea of getting a "Scatter Shield" would allow you other choices but any time you are going to race this car or do burn outs the Scatter Shield might save your life. When a Clutch explodes it can cut your legs right off, the scatter shield is a required item for safety sake. The Scatter shield is basically a new bell housing for your car. You would have to remove the engine and transmission to do the job as it goes in between the two parts.

I could find some parts and put them together but for my transmission but the problem is that I need to get it right the first time. The companies who sell the transmissions as kits have done this enough to know what you need to make it all work properly the first time. I would seriously consider looking at the companies who make the transmission kits. I will try and find some names.

Check out www.summitracing.com and you can find a scatter shield for your application. I wish you the very best and hope that "we" can help you a bit to assist you in making the Corvette of your dreams!
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Old 02-04-2019, 02:46 PM
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T5 originally built by Borg Warner Tremec bought the rights to it. Also called "World Class 5 Speed". Better ones are 85-92 F body or Mustang 85-95. T56 6 speed is found in 93+ F body, because of the 4+3 mounted shifter to floor not transmission floor will need modified also. C4 doesn't require both engine and transmission to be removed to change bell housing. You will want to remove transmission first, then bell housing, removing or installing both together is an unnecessary PITA.
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Old 02-04-2019, 04:21 PM
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Are you convinced you're getting rid of the 4+3? It's a good transmission but it's a little...different from most. Any modification is going to be a PITA, honestly. I know you're in Europe but if you got the parts cheaply (maybe have someone here in the states help you out?) you might still be able to make it work on a budget.Unless you're really throwing a lot of power at it, the 4+3 should hold up pretty well with regular maintenance (just like any transmission really).

What problems, specifically, are you having with the current transmission? Might not be as hard to fix as you'd think...
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:56 PM
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So far I have found 2 ZF6's available on ebay for about $2,000 before shipping. They both include the bell housing, drive shaft and clutch assembly for a conversion. If you dont want to spend money on fixing up the 4+3 this is probably your best option. Any other will require extensive fabrication and I do not recommend that.

I also found a post on putting the T56 from an F-Body car into a C4 and this isn't pretty either T56 in a C4
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:43 AM
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Hello Gents,

Sorry for the delay in responding. I was away traveling for work.

I won the lottery !!!!! Well, I think I did at least. Found a guy in Spain that has a ZF for sale from a car he had that he crashed. I still cannot believe it.

He says the ZF is attached to an LT1 engine. Will this fit on my L98 car? He says he has everything for the install, as a matter a fact the engine is still attached to the engine.

Please let me know what to look for. I read somewhere there is a black and blue label ZF trannies. What is that?
How do I recognize the difference?

Sorry for the million questions it is just that I still cannot believe it.

Thanks again
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:24 AM
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Sounds like you are set donor car will have everything you should need to change over.
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:40 AM
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Don't allow the auto downshift and the trans will be fine !
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevova View Post
Sounds like you are set donor car will have everything you should need to change over.
Well kinda sorda

He pulled engine and tranny ftom car. The car itself is there. He does say everything is there.

Any comments on the tranny etc?

Thanks Kevova
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by BlowerWorks View Post
Don't allow the auto downshift and the trans will be fine !
I do not understand this comment.

Please do explain !!
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:15 PM
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Theres adapters out there (post in C3 tech or speedtalk.com youll find a vendor)
Nothing wrong with either ZF they are both good youl love it. Get the pedal assembly, any electrical pigtails etc.
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cuisinartvette View Post
Theres adapters out there (post in C3 tech or speedtalk.com youll find a vendor)
Nothing wrong with either ZF they are both good youl love it. Get the pedal assembly, any electrical pigtails etc.
​​​​​​
Hello cruiseinartvette,

Will see what is all available as much as possible. I doubt the pigtails are available.

Adapters for the wiring you mean?
Will keep all posted.
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