If you clicked on this thread you´re probably aware of what a wideband lambda sensor is,and that buying stand alone systems(converter and sensors) are fairly expensive.
Not only that,but the NTK UEGO has skyrocketed in price range also.

Here´s the deal.

We´re a team of enthusiasts(Me and Joby amongst others) that are currently well under way of putting together a digital converter based on the currently available Bosch sensor instead.

The digital converter will be able to sample not only the WB data,but we´re at the moment trying to figure out the neccesary other input as well.
Ie; TPS voltage,MAP voltage aso.

The cheapest resource for OEM install Bosch´s at the moment seems to be Volvo.

We´re thinking along the lines of marketing this digital box including software needed to run via laptop,and the price range will hoover around the 350$ mark.

Sensor will run another 150 approx.

Would you in this case have interest in such a tool for said money?

 

Hate to burst your bubble, I think your a little behind in your timing or research. I have one right now that is running a Bosch Sensor with digital display, logging cabilities etc.

Also the sensor is out of a Honda Civic.

Either your devolping the same this someone else already has or trying to sell the same unit :rolleyes:

Also they sell the unassembled units for ~25 US dollars with all the components. All you need is a solder iron, some cable, the sensor in question, display and some time. :cheers:

 

I guess not.
Maybe i was unclear,but the idea here is a windows based program for a laptop with various sampling abilitys.
Anyone of you that has sampled ECU info has more then once run into situations where you "think" you´re doing one thing,but in reality are doing something else.
Just take TPS voltage for instance.

The idea here is to be able to sample all of the info needed into one setup so to say.
PCB will be pro built,as will the casings.

Been asked if this has any similaritys to the DIY-EFI stuff that i presume you´re talking of,and the answer is no.

In this case i´d say that we´re talking more along the original thinking of the old racepack computer once installed into a lot of race cars.

Ie;being able to within reason sample as much analogue info as your heart desire.
For instance being able to sample the WB sensor output together with-but not limited to;
TPS
MAP
Revs
IAT
Outside the engine management;
EGT
G-tech output and what have you.

After having worked with this on a practical level for yrs,i have to say that the mere WB info taken out of context leaves something to be desired.
Ergo..there you have the reason for this tool.
We ourselves simply got fed up with the total cost of trying to keep ontop of things.

 

If it'll do what you say it will, I'd be interested in it. Right now going back and trying to correlate the wideband info to a datalog from the ecm is a pain because there really isn't a time reference point.

 

Interested, yeah, but when will it be available? (Time to market will be important.) I suppose you will be doing ODB1 only? (Making a product for an OLD system?)

Maybe this should have been in the "scan en tune" section.

 

Racing, go here and check this out.

http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm

It has everything you describe, except the TPS, which I have no idea why you would even care to use that verses AFR. I have been doing this stuff for quite some time and I really don't care much about that when tuning AFR. The software they offer logs the RPM vs AFR, that is really all you need. Has a digital display with graphics bar, enclosed case etc.

Don't get me wrong, if you have something that will be equal to this, great. Competition will drive the pricing down, but the way you were talking, it made it sould like you were breaking new ground with this setup.

When I bought theirs about 1 yr ago it was ~150 for the assembled PCB. Mine would have been the first with the new cover, but I did not want to wait for them to be manufactured, so I made my own from a plastic case I already had.

The display have 2 rs232 connectors that one plugs into the PCB and the other plugs into the laptop com port. It start on the keyboard (in windows) and drive around as much as you like logging AFR vs RPM. What else do you need?

Hopefully your unit will create some competition and drive the pricing down. Unfortunately the sensors will remain 150 bucks.

On the other hand if you were to develope a software program comparable to Craig Moates or equivalent that would record the information through com2 while the car was hooked to com1 and collect the data all in one spot, then that would be cool. But really it wouldn't warrent the added cost to swap over in my opinion.

:cheers:

 

ski_dwn_it

Hate to burst your bubble but:

Racing was talking about using the Bosch UEGO, not the Honda part. AFAIK Bosch requires a different current drive for their Nernst cell. (Some people have questioned the accuracy of the original DIY design, which Gargano copied for his unit.)

A tech interested in road-racing performance would use TPS & MAP along with AFR and RPM as tuning aids for part-throttle & tip-in (drivability) tuning.

If you read Racings post, you would understand that a stand-alone logger will run a much higher data rate than the ALDL port... He was talking about the Racepack type data system, with provision for acceleromeers, etc. This is far more useful for in-car performance tuning than the bare ALDL data.

 

First thing you would need to do is contact Troy about becoming a Supporting Vendor, otherwise, you won't be able to sell here.

 

I don't want to get into a pissing match here people. But you say he is or is not using the UEGO sensor? If your saying or he is saying that he is using the UEGO, well its the same one that I am using and it is from a Honda. This was taken off the DIY-WB site:

The single most expensive and vital component of the DIY-WB kit is the NTK wide band sensor (also called a UEGO, or Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen sensor).

The DIY-WB kit works ONLY with a specific 5 wire NTK sensor (with a 7 pin plug). This sensor is available as a replacement part for a Honda (part # 36531-P07-003 - Honda Civic 1.5 3 Door, circa 1995, US, non-Californian model).

The NTK sensor is stamped with the text L1H1 and is often referred to using this name

So as I said earlier in the post, unit can be had for the purposes of AFR for half the price he advertised and the software is free for logging vs RPM. As far as the other items, well, if your road racing and feel its worth while then go for it :cheers:

And just for the record, I have read all the threads about Peter G supposedly *stealing* this idea from other people that developed it. And I will say again, if they were not smart enough to cover there butts with some sort of agreement, that is their problem and they should quite crying about it. I have compared the DFI-Wb they have and its no where near as refined as this unit with digital display etc. IMHO I think they are a bit jeolous of what Peter refined the unit to.

Again I will say, if this refines the process of logging (normal car parameters) and achieving WB data all in one, then YES it would be great. Sounds to me though like its more of a software type system than anything else. But from a tuning standpoint the BLMs the car returns for part throttle etc are more important than AFR. But when it comes to WOT the WB can not be beat. For part throttle, the AFR better be ~14.7 or you better start looking at the ECM.

Maybe I am missing the larger picture here with the unit he described so briefly.

Guess I will wait for more information. :cheers:

 

You are probably wise not to enter a pissing contest.

A brief web search would show when Racing said Bosch (Germany) it is not the same company as NTK (Japan). When Racing said the sensor was from a Volvo (Sweden) it's not the same car as a Honda (Japan).

More reading on the DIY site would show these specs:

ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/incoming/Bosch_lsm11.pdf
ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/incoming/Bosch%20LSU4%20english1.pdf
ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/incoming/Bosch_LSU4.2_data_sheet.pdf


And just for the record, (as you said) a Lambda sensor is another name for an Oxygen sensor - "also called a UEGO, or Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen sensor". Which means UEGO is an English abbreviation, not a Japanese word.

Also for the record, an ECM does not need to be at WOT to be in PE or AE mode. And when it's in AE or PE you cannot use BLMs for tuning.

 

I would bet by that comment you are a regular on the thirdgen...although there are a few people on that site that offer valuable information...most of the people there are a little immature.

 

Just trying to make sure that anyone who takes the trouble to actually read the messages will find accurate information, in addition to opinions.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion.

 

Hey, I have the Tech-Edge also and it works for my needs. I did have a hard time finding the NTK sensor though. The Bosch probe is much more readily available, and in fact even Tech edge is working on a new design that will support it.

I say if a group wants to build more cool stuff and keep the price affordable then we should all encourage them to continue to support our hobby.

KM

 

Hmm...
I´ve understood from posting this on a small number of boards that i need to be more explicit.

1/This is NOT a mere WB converter.What we´re talking about here is IMO best described as sort of a modern date racepack computer.
Idea is to run various analogue sampled data into the box and run them on your laptop either in numerical or graphical form.
To my knowledge there isn´t such a device on the market today with a reasonable price range.
Kit will include the box,software for your pooter and a LED display for mounting within the vehicle.Log function will be part of the software for the lap.

2/Please appreciate that the team behind this idea are racers.We view this from a PRACTICAL standpoint.
The mere WB data,and the use thereof,to us is a waste of time.
We NEED to be able to sample different data,and with the microprocessor involved the limit to this basically is the sky.We can at the moment design to input any amount of data our hearts desire.Which leads to us posting this.We feel we need you guys input.

For instance...
From a practical standpoint we know that automotive stuff gets tossed around.
That leads to the simple fact that this tool needs to be sturdy.
Ie; an aluminium casing for instance.Same thinking goes for the wiring.

3/Yes,the WB sensor used will be the Bosch LSU unit.
The NTK getting more and more scarse,we simply looked around for another sensor and agreed on the Bosch.
No,the Bosch does NOT run on the same characteristics as the NTK.

 

Going back to the first post in this thread, yes, I'd be interested in this equipment for that price. Maybe you can put an email list together to let interested people know when they're ready.

jmr302@earthlink.net

 

I think instant digital displays on WB stuff are usless. They just refresh too fast to be able to glance at them. Tough to get a feel for what the car is doing. I like the lambdaboy since it has the range of LEDs that go from lean to rich. Much easier to look at quickly and get a reference of what is going on.

 

Scorp the one I have has the led and readout together. You are correct though its tough to watch the tach, display, girls wallking :D , and road all at once. The program that adapts to mine frees up both eyes for the girls :cheers: