Wintertime Fuel Question
11-21-2021, 09:21 AM
#22
Safety Car
11-21-2021, 09:36 AM
#23
Le Mans Master
Just my own experience with E10 fuel (which is all that's available at the pumps in my area):
Four injected vehicles that sit unused for at least the winter months, occasionally up to a year: Zero problems. Ever. No additives. Never even paid attention to how much fuel was in their tanks when parked.
One carbureted Corvette (Carter AFB - a wonderful carburetor): Zero problems. Ever. No additives. Never even paid attention to how much fuel was in its tank when parked. I should add that the float bowl in this carburetor invariably empties itself due to evaporation if the car sits unused for even a week. Never causes a problem. Always fires up after cranking for a while to refill the bowl.
One carbureted motorcycle (twin Mikunis with very small pilot jets): Chronic problems. Could not let that bike sit unused for more than a couple of weeks; if I did, I'd have to clean out the carbs before it would run at all. Marine-grade Stabil, the blue stuff, did absolutely nothing to mitigate this problem. I got fed up with it, gave up on Stabil and sold the bike.
Various pieces of equipment with small carbureted engines - mine and those belonging to friends, neighbors and family: E10 in their tanks and carbs for months in the off-season, had to clean out the carbs to get them to run again. Almost invariably. Dozens of times. I now never leave fuel in any such equipment for more than a month, and advise others to do the same. I run them dry before putting them away for the season. Never once a problem since doing this.
Fuel in a can in the shed all winter. Still fine in the spring. Never once a problem. Never paid any attention to how much is in the can at the end of the summer.
My conclusions based solely on my experience are as follows:
Carburetors with tiny jets don't like to have E10 in their carbs for extended periods of disuse.
Carburetors with large jets might never have trouble with E10, so long as the soft parts are ethanol-tolerant.
Injected vehicles can sit unused for extended periods with zero trouble. The fuel in the lines and sitting behind the injectors cannot evaporate. The high pressure applied to the supply line will push the fuel through after a long slumber.
E10 in my 5 gallon plastic can seems just fine after a winter of storage.
Stabil is an utterly worthless waste of $.
I'll conclude by saying that I'd never choose to let E10 fuel go stale to the point of sitting unused for a couple of years or more. I suspect that'd be pushing my luck.
FWIW, YMMV, yadda yadda...
Live well,
SJW
Four injected vehicles that sit unused for at least the winter months, occasionally up to a year: Zero problems. Ever. No additives. Never even paid attention to how much fuel was in their tanks when parked.
One carbureted Corvette (Carter AFB - a wonderful carburetor): Zero problems. Ever. No additives. Never even paid attention to how much fuel was in its tank when parked. I should add that the float bowl in this carburetor invariably empties itself due to evaporation if the car sits unused for even a week. Never causes a problem. Always fires up after cranking for a while to refill the bowl.
One carbureted motorcycle (twin Mikunis with very small pilot jets): Chronic problems. Could not let that bike sit unused for more than a couple of weeks; if I did, I'd have to clean out the carbs before it would run at all. Marine-grade Stabil, the blue stuff, did absolutely nothing to mitigate this problem. I got fed up with it, gave up on Stabil and sold the bike.
Various pieces of equipment with small carbureted engines - mine and those belonging to friends, neighbors and family: E10 in their tanks and carbs for months in the off-season, had to clean out the carbs to get them to run again. Almost invariably. Dozens of times. I now never leave fuel in any such equipment for more than a month, and advise others to do the same. I run them dry before putting them away for the season. Never once a problem since doing this.
Fuel in a can in the shed all winter. Still fine in the spring. Never once a problem. Never paid any attention to how much is in the can at the end of the summer.
My conclusions based solely on my experience are as follows:
Carburetors with tiny jets don't like to have E10 in their carbs for extended periods of disuse.
Carburetors with large jets might never have trouble with E10, so long as the soft parts are ethanol-tolerant.
Injected vehicles can sit unused for extended periods with zero trouble. The fuel in the lines and sitting behind the injectors cannot evaporate. The high pressure applied to the supply line will push the fuel through after a long slumber.
E10 in my 5 gallon plastic can seems just fine after a winter of storage.
Stabil is an utterly worthless waste of $.
I'll conclude by saying that I'd never choose to let E10 fuel go stale to the point of sitting unused for a couple of years or more. I suspect that'd be pushing my luck.
FWIW, YMMV, yadda yadda...
Live well,
SJW
11-21-2021, 10:41 AM
#24
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
But it doesn't even matter. Did you read post number 10?
What about the "degradation" of gasoline over the winter? How about the "evaporation of light ends"? IDK know if that is a real thing, but it's tossed about on these forums as though it's a legitimate concern. A few years ago, I changed the oil and filled my tank in my '92 in November, parked it in the garage and covered it for the winter...standard practice. The following May, I pulled the cover off, fired it up, drove it down Parley's canyon into SLC, straight to Rocky Mtn Raceway (our local drag track), and ran a 13.73@101 (at 4200' elevation)....fastest time the car has ever run! Fastest time the car has ever run, folks.
11-21-2021, 02:19 PM
#25
Safety Car
11-21-2021, 10:14 PM
#26
Drifting
Member Since: May 2019
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I've only used stabilizer in my mowers. Never used it in my cars.
11-21-2021, 11:07 PM
#27
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
The gas isn't stale. That is the basis of my whole point in this thread! It doesn't spit. It doesn't sputter. You can't smell the gas, but if you could, it would and does smell like typical gas. Fill the tank, put it away for the winter...in the spring, the gas won't be bad (unless you have other, actual problems). If the gas were "stale", smelled bad, that would be bad gas...but it wouldn't be bad from 6 mo's in a filled tank and it also wouldn't get a stock LT1 down the track @13.73/101.
You only get 220 miles out of a tank!?
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11-22-2021, 12:04 AM
#28
Team Owner
Member Since: Dec 2012
Location: Outside the Quick Stop N.J.
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11-22-2021, 07:21 AM
#29
Safety Car
What are you talking about??
The gas isn't stale. That is the basis of my whole point in this thread! It doesn't spit. It doesn't sputter. You can't smell the gas, but if you could, it would and does smell like typical gas. Fill the tank, put it away for the winter...in the spring, the gas won't be bad (unless you have other, actual problems). If the gas were "stale", smelled bad, that would be bad gas...but it wouldn't be bad from 6 mo's in a filled tank and it also wouldn't get a stock LT1 down the track @13.73/101.
You only get 220 miles out of a tank!?
The gas isn't stale. That is the basis of my whole point in this thread! It doesn't spit. It doesn't sputter. You can't smell the gas, but if you could, it would and does smell like typical gas. Fill the tank, put it away for the winter...in the spring, the gas won't be bad (unless you have other, actual problems). If the gas were "stale", smelled bad, that would be bad gas...but it wouldn't be bad from 6 mo's in a filled tank and it also wouldn't get a stock LT1 down the track @13.73/101.
You only get 220 miles out of a tank!?
11-22-2021, 09:49 AM
#30
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
I get it though. People move to this kind of behavior when they feel called out. I'm sorry that you feel that way, I didn't mean to do that but I'm sure that I could have worded my response better. Gas doesn't "go bad", in 6 mo's in a filled tank. It doesn't. If that makes me Mr. Perfect, or whatever names you feel like applying, so be it. That is a fact, and I've had 100's if not 1000's of seasonal storage's where gas has NOT gone bad in 6 mo's.... to back that up. Sorry that you don't like it, but you could stand to learn a thing here?....or you could get all pissy about it. I DO get fantastic life from my stuff. Why do you suppose that is?
11-22-2021, 05:12 PM
#31
Safety Car
Around here gas goes bad in a month in a sealed gallon can, smells bad and will not start a lawnmower, add stabil before hand and its good all winter.
93 octane in my vette now was put in the tank less than a month ago and its starting to smell already.
But everytime someone needs help you have to boast how good your stuff is so they are wasting their time buying a $3 bottle of Lucas, what do you want them to do spend $3000 to rebuild the engine first????
Again Mr. Perfect not everyone else is as gifted as you so be considerate to the less fortunate sometime.
11-22-2021, 08:42 PM
#32
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Yeah? Let's examine this a little then....shall we? How would YOU define fantastic? . It was you, wasn't it, who threw out the claim that
Now...I do appreciate the compliment and yes, my stuff DOES last a long, long time....but that was a bit of an exaggeration. My last truck, I sold with only 300,000 miles. Is that not pretty fantastic? Tell us? How long is "fantastic"?
Also, things most certainly DO go wrong. In fact, you can do a quick search, right here on these very forums and see for yourself...all of the problems I've had with my Corvettes. There all documented on here...I'm not hiding anything...have a look! I've had my '92 for 12 years and ~75,000 miles, it's at ~203k at the moment. Search. See all of it's problems...then come and tell us....How few problems on a car like that, is "fantastic"? You tell us.
I think my 'Vette HAS been a pretty fantastic car for the past 12 years...and I know why it has...and it ain't b/c of Stabil. Or Lucas or any other "hopes and dreams" in a bottle. It's b/c of very basic, decent maintenance and care. But maybe I'm a dumbass and it's actually a steaming pile of cow dung?
Well....if that's the case, that's fine I guess...it's the fastest stock '92 steaming pile of cow dung in UT at least.
Sure it does. I'm sure that your gas is completely different than ours. It must be special gas there. Good to see that you're using the good 'ol "Sniff-o-meter" to sample the quality of your gas.
Is that what I've said? I don't think that it is. If I did say that, or demonstrate the necessity of that...PLEASE, quote where I did that right away, so that I can correct it!
It's weird though, that you fail to recognize that I actually AM helping people (trying to, at least), by pointing out the reality of the situation; that you don't need to waste money on that product (and/or a plethora of others). For trying to share that knowledge...you get pissy at me and call names. Well done.
Hey...you're the only one here calling me perfect. It IS a nice compliment...but I'm far from perfect. 30 years of fleet management....I don't know everything, but I probably know more than you.
. It was you, wasn't it, who threw out the claim thatNow...I do appreciate the compliment and yes, my stuff DOES last a long, long time....but that was a bit of an exaggeration. My last truck, I sold with only 300,000 miles. Is that not pretty fantastic? Tell us? How long is "fantastic"?
Also, things most certainly DO go wrong. In fact, you can do a quick search, right here on these very forums and see for yourself...all of the problems I've had with my Corvettes. There all documented on here...I'm not hiding anything...have a look! I've had my '92 for 12 years and ~75,000 miles, it's at ~203k at the moment. Search. See all of it's problems...then come and tell us....How few problems on a car like that, is "fantastic"? You tell us.
I think my 'Vette HAS been a pretty fantastic car for the past 12 years...and I know why it has...and it ain't b/c of Stabil. Or Lucas or any other "hopes and dreams" in a bottle. It's b/c of very basic, decent maintenance and care. But maybe I'm a dumbass and it's actually a steaming pile of cow dung?
Well....if that's the case, that's fine I guess...it's the fastest stock '92 steaming pile of cow dung in UT at least.
It's weird though, that you fail to recognize that I actually AM helping people (trying to, at least), by pointing out the reality of the situation; that you don't need to waste money on that product (and/or a plethora of others). For trying to share that knowledge...you get pissy at me and call names. Well done.
11-23-2021, 05:11 PM
#33
Safety Car
Yeah? Let's examine this a little then....shall we? How would YOU define fantastic? . It was you, wasn't it, who threw out the claim that
Now...I do appreciate the compliment and yes, my stuff DOES last a long, long time....but that was a bit of an exaggeration. My last truck, I sold with only 300,000 miles. Is that not pretty fantastic? Tell us? How long is "fantastic"?
Also, things most certainly DO go wrong. In fact, you can do a quick search, right here on these very forums and see for yourself...all of the problems I've had with my Corvettes. There all documented on here...I'm not hiding anything...have a look! I've had my '92 for 12 years and ~75,000 miles, it's at ~203k at the moment. Search. See all of it's problems...then come and tell us....How few problems on a car like that, is "fantastic"? You tell us.
I think my 'Vette HAS been a pretty fantastic car for the past 12 years...and I know why it has...and it ain't b/c of Stabil. Or Lucas or any other "hopes and dreams" in a bottle. It's b/c of very basic, decent maintenance and care. But maybe I'm a dumbass and it's actually a steaming pile of cow dung?
Well....if that's the case, that's fine I guess...it's the fastest stock '92 steaming pile of cow dung in UT at least.
Sure it does. I'm sure that your gas is completely different than ours. It must be special gas there. Good to see that you're using the good 'ol "Sniff-o-meter" to sample the quality of your gas.
Is that what I've said? I don't think that it is. If I did say that, or demonstrate the necessity of that...PLEASE, quote where I did that right away, so that I can correct it!
It's weird though, that you fail to recognize that I actually AM helping people (trying to, at least), by pointing out the reality of the situation; that you don't need to waste money on that product (and/or a plethora of others). For trying to share that knowledge...you get pissy at me and call names. Well done.
Hey...you're the only one here calling me perfect. It IS a nice compliment...but I'm far from perfect. 30 years of fleet management....I don't know everything, but I probably know more than you.
. It was you, wasn't it, who threw out the claim thatNow...I do appreciate the compliment and yes, my stuff DOES last a long, long time....but that was a bit of an exaggeration. My last truck, I sold with only 300,000 miles. Is that not pretty fantastic? Tell us? How long is "fantastic"?
Also, things most certainly DO go wrong. In fact, you can do a quick search, right here on these very forums and see for yourself...all of the problems I've had with my Corvettes. There all documented on here...I'm not hiding anything...have a look! I've had my '92 for 12 years and ~75,000 miles, it's at ~203k at the moment. Search. See all of it's problems...then come and tell us....How few problems on a car like that, is "fantastic"? You tell us.
I think my 'Vette HAS been a pretty fantastic car for the past 12 years...and I know why it has...and it ain't b/c of Stabil. Or Lucas or any other "hopes and dreams" in a bottle. It's b/c of very basic, decent maintenance and care. But maybe I'm a dumbass and it's actually a steaming pile of cow dung?
Well....if that's the case, that's fine I guess...it's the fastest stock '92 steaming pile of cow dung in UT at least.
Sure it does. I'm sure that your gas is completely different than ours. It must be special gas there. Good to see that you're using the good 'ol "Sniff-o-meter" to sample the quality of your gas.
Is that what I've said? I don't think that it is. If I did say that, or demonstrate the necessity of that...PLEASE, quote where I did that right away, so that I can correct it!
It's weird though, that you fail to recognize that I actually AM helping people (trying to, at least), by pointing out the reality of the situation; that you don't need to waste money on that product (and/or a plethora of others). For trying to share that knowledge...you get pissy at me and call names. Well done.
Hey...you're the only one here calling me perfect. It IS a nice compliment...but I'm far from perfect. 30 years of fleet management....I don't know everything, but I probably know more than you.
Everytime someone ask I need a recommendation for some oil additive, you say " I don't need any my stuff is Fantastic and runs for 200000 miles perfect so I can't recommend anything but I can tell you my stuff is perfect!
No one wants to hear about your "13 second" vette that doesn't need any fuel additive, its not their car and their problems.
And as far as you knowing more than me, on what subject, it sure isn't cars. I'll let you know that right now.
Example #1" I bought current vette took it on an extensive test drive with a full tank of gas, ran rough the whole time, added the bottle of Techron fuel injector cleaner, 3.5 hour trip home and the car ran smooth as glass, so where I suggest a bottle of $15 cleaner you will say its junk and should replace all the injectors for $400 guarantee it, basically saying my experience didn't happen.
Mr. Perfect................................. .......................................
Last edited by Tim H; 11-23-2021 at 05:26 PM.
11-23-2021, 08:00 PM
#34
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Sure thing man. You definitely show your automotive "knowledge" (as well as your maturity) in all of your posts. 
As you were; Go buy a 55 gallon drum of Stabil and GIVE'R HELL!
Get some Seafoam while you're at it...it's a genuine, "three orifice Elixir"! which even Stabil doesn't try to claim. Go git'er buddy!
As you were; Go buy a 55 gallon drum of Stabil and GIVE'R HELL! Get some Seafoam while you're at it...it's a genuine, "three orifice Elixir"! which even Stabil doesn't try to claim. Go git'er buddy!
11-24-2021, 03:33 PM
#35
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Oct 2017
Location: Somewhere near Fort Wayne, Indiana
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We both know our stuff.. no doubt. I go through about 40 gallons of the marine staybil a year. Each boat gets it before they are driven out and pulled from the water. This has been common practice for me for my entire career. But it was never that bad before or after the 2010ish area I speak of. At least not where it was a major problem for everyone. At The marina we just finished our 200 for the year...fuel issues are where a marine mechanic needs to be familiar with as this is the majority of boat issues.
I can dig up the pics if you want, would just take a few days of going through my stacks of discs. But the biggest ones besides separation were,
-float bowls full of jello. Was crazy, it looked like fuel but was a shinny jello. Multiple times with this.
-fuel tanks degrading and falling apart and leaking fuel.These were fiberglass tanks which obviously dosent affect cars. But I personally had to do the estimate which totaled the boats out as replacing the tanks would cost too much
-fuel lines expanding, collapsing, swelling, and specking, getting hard, getting soft... This was and still is an issue with rubber fuel lines made before 2008 (once again in the marine world) These lines swell on inside and collapse. The specking is also an ongoing issue. This is where bit by bit the fuel line falls apart internally. Your fuel filter always has black dust in it. Some lines also had a liner in them that would fall apart and once again be in the filter all the time.
-anti siphon valves, floats, diaphragms, injectors, etc stuck due to residue left over in fuel that evaporated. Even in cases where fuel was still present the fuel was sticky (no pic for that).
Marine is tough due to the fact that the ethanol attract moisture and up until a few years ago the tanks were vented normally. This caused many issues with phase separation. Once water was in the tank it would just grow from there.. staybil(or k100 or any of the top brands) would prevent this and has..
I am also the service manager for my marina (and parts and warranty due to no help). So I understand the snake oil thing. I don't promote anything at all unless I can back it up. Not even seen it once type of stuff.
My own stuff (except my daily driver)? Staybil in non ethanol fuel ( I bought before the winter blend comes around) and a full tank. One bottle does it for my engines a year.. My customers its built into the job, but i dont mind the 5 bucks a year i spend to add to all my stuff.. its ounces to gallons so its not like its expensive....... Every major engine manufacturer will push this info to us and its not like they own additive makers..On my end that would be Mercury, Yamaha, BRP, Volvo Penta, Honda and Suzuki.
I dont work for staybil so I'm not trying to sell you anything lol.. so I'm not trying to convince anyone.. if you dont need or want it thats up to you. Funny I was just at the marine show at Mohegan Sun the past 2 days and stabil, k100 manufacturer, and 2 other fuel companies were there. If you go to startronic and or staybil I believe there is data and more info right on their sites.
I can dig up the pics if you want, would just take a few days of going through my stacks of discs. But the biggest ones besides separation were,
-float bowls full of jello. Was crazy, it looked like fuel but was a shinny jello. Multiple times with this.
-fuel tanks degrading and falling apart and leaking fuel.These were fiberglass tanks which obviously dosent affect cars. But I personally had to do the estimate which totaled the boats out as replacing the tanks would cost too much
-fuel lines expanding, collapsing, swelling, and specking, getting hard, getting soft... This was and still is an issue with rubber fuel lines made before 2008 (once again in the marine world) These lines swell on inside and collapse. The specking is also an ongoing issue. This is where bit by bit the fuel line falls apart internally. Your fuel filter always has black dust in it. Some lines also had a liner in them that would fall apart and once again be in the filter all the time.
-anti siphon valves, floats, diaphragms, injectors, etc stuck due to residue left over in fuel that evaporated. Even in cases where fuel was still present the fuel was sticky (no pic for that).
Marine is tough due to the fact that the ethanol attract moisture and up until a few years ago the tanks were vented normally. This caused many issues with phase separation. Once water was in the tank it would just grow from there.. staybil(or k100 or any of the top brands) would prevent this and has..
I am also the service manager for my marina (and parts and warranty due to no help). So I understand the snake oil thing. I don't promote anything at all unless I can back it up. Not even seen it once type of stuff.
My own stuff (except my daily driver)? Staybil in non ethanol fuel ( I bought before the winter blend comes around) and a full tank. One bottle does it for my engines a year.. My customers its built into the job, but i dont mind the 5 bucks a year i spend to add to all my stuff.. its ounces to gallons so its not like its expensive....... Every major engine manufacturer will push this info to us and its not like they own additive makers..On my end that would be Mercury, Yamaha, BRP, Volvo Penta, Honda and Suzuki.
I dont work for staybil so I'm not trying to sell you anything lol.. so I'm not trying to convince anyone.. if you dont need or want it thats up to you. Funny I was just at the marine show at Mohegan Sun the past 2 days and stabil, k100 manufacturer, and 2 other fuel companies were there. If you go to startronic and or staybil I believe there is data and more info right on their sites.
11-25-2021, 10:25 AM
#36
Safety Car
Sure thing man. You definitely show your automotive "knowledge" (as well as your maturity) in all of your posts. As you were; Go buy a 55 gallon drum of Stabil and GIVE'R HELL!
Get some Seafoam while you're at it...it's a genuine, "three orifice Elixir"! which even Stabil doesn't try to claim. Go git'er buddy!
As you were; Go buy a 55 gallon drum of Stabil and GIVE'R HELL! Get some Seafoam while you're at it...it's a genuine, "three orifice Elixir"! which even Stabil doesn't try to claim. Go git'er buddy!
Last edited by Tim H; 11-25-2021 at 10:43 AM.
11-25-2021, 01:43 PM
#37
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
11-25-2021, 01:44 PM
#38
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
I wanted to hear FostersPerformance's observations also, re: salt water boats vs. fresh water boats....but I think it's about time to lock'er up. Kids can't seem to manage themselves.
11-25-2021, 02:31 PM
#39
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jul 2003
Location: Saratoga Springs NY
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2022 C4 of the Year Finalist - Modified
Salt water was no different as far as issues. Thats where I had the issues with fiberglass tanks as the boats were bigger at the marina. But after 7 years I moved back to NY in 2007. When that magic 2010 year rolled around they were having the same issues we had. In fact Yamaha was the 1st to come out with warnings and advise and what not.
11-25-2021, 04:22 PM
#40
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
So people seemingly manage to keep the salt water out of their fuel tanks? I'm surprised by that. Thanks for the report.