165 ecm conversion...what year MAF do i use?
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165 ecm conversion...what year MAF do i use?
im changing my 1985's 870 ecm to a 165 ecm,,,,,but which MAF senor do i use? they are listed as two different parts, but nobody seems to know which one i should be using?anyone thats done this what did u use? :cheers:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,426
Likes: 4
From: Heidelberg PA
Cruise-In V Veteran
Re: (scorp508)
Look at the GP for the HP MAF. The 85 to 89 are the same MAF.
Just to be sure I would go to TPIS or Lingenfelters web site and see how they sell their MAFs
Just to be sure I would go to TPIS or Lingenfelters web site and see how they sell their MAFs
Drifting
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,801
Likes: 2
From: St. Paul MN
Re: (85vet)
I would go to a car parts store and buy a Wells SU145 MAF. This will work better than a Bosch, suposedly. It is neat because it doesn't use the thin wire. It uses a thin film circuit board. Supposed to be much more durable and flows better too. I had a hard time finding it but got a place called CarQuest Auto Parts to order it for me. Good Luck.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 11,506
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From: Vancouver,Wa.
Re: 165 ecm conversion...what year MAF do i use? (Kamarossrs)
Here is a wells that Bob was talking about. From what I have been reading they flow better than stock and they are well built.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 179
Likes: 1
From: Oxford AL
Re: 165 ecm conversion...what year MAF do i use? (corvette0096)
Is the right one? http://www.partsamerica.com/product_.../74/747799.jpg
edit- I just asked an expert about this MAF and it is a frequency output, not voltage like the TPI uses. It won't work with a 165 (but will with a 730)
[Modified by Cooter, 1:01 AM 12/30/2002]
edit- I just asked an expert about this MAF and it is a frequency output, not voltage like the TPI uses. It won't work with a 165 (but will with a 730)
[Modified by Cooter, 1:01 AM 12/30/2002]
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 130
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From: Torrance CA
Re: 165 ecm conversion...what year MAF do i use? (Cooter)
If you are contemplating extensive modifications, I recommend skipping the 165 and going to the 730. It's about the same amount of work as changing to the 165, but you get a newer designed ECM and newer designed software.
The MAP sensor is a lot cheaper than a MAF sensor too.
Before anybody replies with the "MAF vs Speed Density" argument - don't bother, it is irrelevant. Newer technology is better than older technology; all the supposition in the world won't change that.
The MAP sensor is a lot cheaper than a MAF sensor too.
Before anybody replies with the "MAF vs Speed Density" argument - don't bother, it is irrelevant. Newer technology is better than older technology; all the supposition in the world won't change that.
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Instructor
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 130
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From: Torrance CA
Re: 165 ecm conversion...what year MAF do i use? (corvette0096)
The newest engine control system for the L98 is the 730/727 ecm, using speed density.
An LT1 MAF system is better, but it would be very difficult to install on an L98.
An LT1 MAF system is better, but it would be very difficult to install on an L98.
Former Vendor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,204
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From: St Marys PA
Re: 165 ecm conversion...what year MAF do i use? (CORKVETTE1)
There is nothing at all wrong with a MAF car. I have done quite a bit of reading on SD vs MAF and am yet to see a performance gain by switching over. Also some pretty stout cars run MAF with some near 10sec 1/4 mile times naturally aspirated, so the air flow is there.
Now if your MAF meter goes out and you need to buy a new one for 500 bucks or so, I would definately consider MAP, but until that time comes, there is really no reason to go through the hassle, and as stated before the MAF takes to mods MUCH better than the MAP car will.
Now if your MAF meter goes out and you need to buy a new one for 500 bucks or so, I would definately consider MAP, but until that time comes, there is really no reason to go through the hassle, and as stated before the MAF takes to mods MUCH better than the MAP car will.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 179
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From: Oxford AL
Re: 165 ecm conversion...what year MAF do i use? (Kevin 88)
I don't understand your point. Are you saying the 730 ECM is newer technology because it was used up to '92 on the Camaro. Isn't it still the same ECM used from '87 on the Cavalier?
For the L98 application, the 165 was used from '86 - '89, and the 727/730 was used from '90 - '91 (and '92 in F-bodies).
Drifting
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,801
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From: St. Paul MN
Re: 165 ecm conversion...what year MAF do i use? (Cooter)
Oh oh! Somebody let the cat outa the bag on this one. Just remember the original question. Let's see, what was it? Oh ya, he wanted to know about a MAF.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: PITTSBURGH PA
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Cruise-In V Veteran
Re: 165 ecm conversion...what year MAF do i use? (Bob86ZZ4)
all the maf are the same gm just gave them different part numbers over the years ive put 85s on 87s iv put 89s on 86s it doesnt matter just go to the parts store have them look up the cheapest year and buy it :cheers:
Drifting
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,801
Likes: 2
From: St. Paul MN
Re: 165 ecm conversion...what year MAF do i use? (CORKVETTE1)
I'm still confused about the whole speed density/MAF thing. I've been told by some very reputable tuners that if I switch to the 730 they can tune my system better. So I'm making the conversion over the winter. Which means I won't be using my Wells SU145 or Bosch maf's. Not ready to sell them yet tho.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: PITTSBURGH PA
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Cruise-In V Veteran
Re: 165 ecm conversion...what year MAF do i use? (Bob86ZZ4)
they might be able to tune it for a particular day but the next day when the weather changes it could be off i am being on the extreme but the speed density system can not adjust to different situations as good as a maf system why do you think gm went back to a maf system it sure the hell wasnt cheaper probally a few hundrud dollars per car more but it is a more stable system and can take changes better from the different enviroments :cheers:
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 130
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From: Torrance CA
Re: 165 ecm conversion...what year MAF do i use? (Cooter)
Read my first reply, "IF you are contemplating EXTREME mods..." I implied, but didn't spell out, "otherwise, don't bother".
I did the 870 to 165 swap, I could get more useful readings with DIACOM, but the car ran the same. I did the 165 to 730 swap, slightly less crank time, but still runs the same. I only did it to make tuning for future mods easier. The only other reason to do it is to save the expense of a new MAF as ski_dwn_it mentioned.
ECMs don't make power, both MAF and SD will allow a motor to reach its potential, if properly tuned. The majority of people with L98 based 383s and 406s have switched to SD because they believe it is easier to tune.
Some hardcores, like CORKVETTE1, have built radical cars controlled by MAF.
CORKVETTE1, how did you overcome the 255gps limitation? Did you fab a larger tube and rescale the tables?
Besides, Cavaliers ROCK!
I did the 870 to 165 swap, I could get more useful readings with DIACOM, but the car ran the same. I did the 165 to 730 swap, slightly less crank time, but still runs the same. I only did it to make tuning for future mods easier. The only other reason to do it is to save the expense of a new MAF as ski_dwn_it mentioned.
ECMs don't make power, both MAF and SD will allow a motor to reach its potential, if properly tuned. The majority of people with L98 based 383s and 406s have switched to SD because they believe it is easier to tune.
Some hardcores, like CORKVETTE1, have built radical cars controlled by MAF.
CORKVETTE1, how did you overcome the 255gps limitation? Did you fab a larger tube and rescale the tables?
Besides, Cavaliers ROCK!