Interesting site, I didn't know that was out there. I compared all of my vehicles against the same ones others reported on, and it looks like most people are giving honest reports of their mileage and not "fluffing" the numbers. They're right in line with what I get. Thanks for that link..

 

You're welcome! It's a great resource and tool I've used it quite a bit. You enter the running miles, gallons pumped at each fill, so if you tried to "fluff",
1. it would defeat the whole purpose of using the site
2. your miles would get further and further from actual accrued miles. It would get all messed up. You could fake the gallons pumped....but then, see #1.
It's a fun site to play with and see how you can change the trend w/simple driving techniques....like drafting professional semi truck drivers, 2' off their bumper!





That's a bit of an exaggeration. There is plenty of benefit from drafting from 50' back and I've seen it first hand. You "truckers" do it w/each other, so....pot, meet kettle. You "Spray" your fellow "professionals" with dirt/debris when they do it, too?

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Wow Today Gas prices here are $6.38 a gallon, But Hero Joe Xiden is going to release a million barrel a day from the strategic reserve, I sure hope Putin don't lob no Nukes or
China doesn't move on Taiwan because the military may be short on fuel. True inflation is 30% not 6.5%! Beef and Chicken prices are going up too. Your advice is sound.
Drive light combine trips etc... Keep safe.

 

Nice PRC post.

 

I found the heavy metal pully plate in my garage from my 89 Convertible. That's probably a great way to pick up some MPGs. On the L98s there is a 25lb plate bolted to one of the pullies.

 

First, let me say, the percentage of "Professional Drivers" out there has drastically reduced over the last decade or so. A lot of the big trucking companies are hiring almost anyone with a pulse and then have them training new drivers after they have 6 months experience. So no I'm not trying to hold them up as something to look up to besides the obvious that they are sitting much higher in their vehicle. That being said, there are still a few that know what a safe following distance is and drive accordingly. If you believe that 50' works then why is it that Nascar drivers are on each others bumper? You don't have to believe me, just talk to anyone who has wind tunnel experience and see what they have to say about it. I not claiming to be any kind of expert but I have invested the time to get a very limited education about aerodynamics and that is what I found re: drafting.

 

Judging by what *I* see on the road? 100% Spot on. The **** you see truckers doing?...it's ******* ridiculous. Paid professionals, with a company name on the door and they drive like **** sticks. If you were brake checking and "spraying" people deliberately, like you bragged about earlier...you're just as big a problem as any of the folks "with a pulse". Only difference is that you're aware of you're own ridiculous behavior. ******* atrocious behavior from a paid "professional", who is on the clock. If an operator of mine did something like that and I found out about it? Fired....instantly. Absolutely unacceptable behavior from someone on the clock with a company name on the door and/or trailer. Fired.


Well....you DO realize that it's not a "one or the other", or "on or off" situation; there is a range of effectiveness which obviously diminishes, the further back you are from the leading vehicle. The closer you are, the better it works. The farther away you are....the less effective it is. I wouldn't have thought that needed to be explained. That being the case, NASCAR (and most other racing) drivers are "on each other's bumpers" quite obviously, b/c that is where they get the MOST effect from drafting. The most. If they were 20' back, they'd still get a massive benefit, vs. pushing stagnant air...but the effect wouldn't be as great as if they're inches behind their competitor. Of course, since it's a race/competition, they're going to try to eek out every benefit/advantage they can get, all the time...so they run inches behind each other. Citing racers doing that, as "proof" that it doesn't work, 50' back? Folly.

Do you have a car that has an instant mpg read out? If you have a C4, you do. . On the highway, go a steady speed on flat ground w/the inst. mpg showing. Do it long enough to get an pretty good idea what the car will do for mpg at that speed, on that surface etc. Then....slip behind a semi, 50' back and watch the mpg readings. What do they do??

They go UP.

 

I only drive my 93 about 2000 miles in the summer and fall and I don't care about gas mileage myself. I didn't buy a Corvette to drive like a little old lady so I can get another 1 or 2 mpg!

 

HERE is a good article...provides math, and everything!

 

I'm curious, Do you really feel that attacking and trying to belittle others on here will bring them around to your point of view?

 

Nope. Are you closed to learning regardless of actual facts and good information?

Where did I attack and belittle? I stated some facts, and even illustrated how you could go test this stuff out, for yourself. Why not try it? You could learn a thing.

I gotta say: you, attempting to "call out" behavior is quite rich, considering you dropped this gem, in your first post:
Not very safe, either. A paid "professional", on the clock, acting like a jack ***. You can keep comments about behavior, (and safety) to yourself.


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No, I try to learn something new everyday. And given the new era of "facts" that our politicians have seemed to have entered into they can mean anything that you want them to. As for the attacking, I refer you back to the first part of your post where you seemed to try to say that I was bragging about what I was doing to try to get tailgaters to back off. A brake check can be done by just tapping the brake so that your brake lights light up with out a drastic reduction in speed. That worked most of the time and the other was a last resort for those who just wouldn't get the hint. Was I doing something dangerous? In my mind no. Did I feel good about doing it? NO! But it was better than having to have a real reason to make a quick stop and having the tailgater run into me and possibly be injured. What I did was my way of trying to get people not to tailgate and put themselves and others in danger.
This whole exchange started with my point that drafting is dangerous. Fifty feet back is a safe following distance at moderate speeds. at freeway speeds you are in the danger zone. It's an old rule that a safe following distance is one car length for every 10 mph. I understand that in todays congested highways that a safe following distance is hard to maintain as a lot of drivers see it as an opening to jump in. That being said, all we can do is try not to be part of the problem and try to make sure that our driving isn't going to cause someones loved one to not come home.
I'm sure that you will have a response as to why you are right and I'm wrong so go ahead. Although I remember the old adage about you get more flies with honey than vinegar. If you want more people to come around to seeing things your way you might want to consider that.

 

Nothing that you claimed/bragged (whatever you want to call it)....is OK. It's unacceptable. Spin it how you want in your head, but you don't behave that way as a pro. No way, no how. You tried to justify it by throwing the "safety flag"...re: someone else's safety (their decision)....then you chuck debris at their car!?? Give us a ******* BREAK. This would be unacceptable behavior if you were just the "average duff" on the road. You're on the clock, a CDL carrying "pro". Absolutely ridiculous behavior, no matter how you try to rationalize what you were doing.


You're absolutely right about how the exchange started. Things went off the rails when:
1. You bragged (what ever you want to call it) about your terrible "pro" driving behavior
2. Made the utterly false and ridiculous statement that:
Followed by:
Is that true? NO! Absolutely false, and wrong. You can most definitely get a very meaningful benefit by drafting from afar...even 70' back. Even 100'. Is the benefit as GREAT as "Daytona drafting" drafting? Of course it is not. Is it better than pushing still air? Absolutely and I told you how you can see that with your own car. The FACT is, at highway speed, you could be following at a distance that most wouldn't raise an eyebrow at and be getting some benefit and improved economy. So that misinformation is how the conversation got going.
The terrible driving behavior from a "pro" CDL driver was a bonus that I couldn't resist sharing my thoughts on.

 

Wow, looks like I have done a really good job at getting under your skin. That was not my intent but seems to be the result. I don't know your background any more than you know mine so getting into a spitting match online is kind of a no win proposition. And, if you think I'm on some kind of vendetta against you that is not the case. Case in point, I "liked" your post re: choices in oil filters. In my over 70 years on this planet I've never met anyone that was always right including myself. I have met some that thought they were but we all have instances of being misinformed. So, I see no point in arguing with you as it's obvious that neither of us will convince the other that they are right. So lets let this go and get back to what I believe this site was set up for which is helping out fellow enthusiasts.

 

Ayuh. Helping (with good infromation) is what I do. The rest of ^that^ was a load of irrelevant rhetoric. No where, was I trying to be "right", I don't claim and never have claimed to "always be right"...did I?
But I'm right about the following:
1. Drafting is not binary. It's not "on" or "off" as you implied at the beginning w/your "Daytona drafting" example. It's effectiveness is VARIABLE, based on distance.
2. Your atrocious driving behavior as a CDL carrying "pro" driver. Since, yes, CDL/"pro" drivers acting like that absolutely gets under my skin*. "Bragging" about it does so, even more. Absolutely ridiculous.

I'm not trying to prove anything, but rather point out what is obvious and can be tested with repeatable results (drafting at a distance). I certainly don't know what it is that you're trying to be "right" about? As far as I can tell, you're mostly trying to rationalize the terrible driving practices that you employed as a CDL truck driver. At this point, I'd hope that you'd realize that that horseshit....was a mistake on your part. You'd be better off to simply drop the subject, or man-up and admit it was a mistake to hurl debris at cars...."for their own safety"

I'm on here to help w/good information. I told you (and anyone else reading) many posts ago, how to observe the effectiveness of drafting at a safe distance. Go try it out.


*I'll call the boss of, or the Highway Patrol on, ANY CDL/pro driver behaving in these manners....in a heart beat. Two days ago, I called Godfrey Trucking in SLC and talked to dispatch about a driver of theirs, coming down Parley's Canyon, using a hand held spot light to shine in other driver's (my) eyes. Absolutely unacceptable. Godfrey dispatch agreed. Yeah, it "gets under my skin", so I'm GOING to call you out on it and without even trying to be "right" about that, I'm right about it.


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https://www.altair.com/newsroom/arti...n-the-highway/

 

Yep. That link agrees with the point that I was making; it's not "all or nothing". There are still meaningful benefits from "drafting" (or simply "following") a truck at a safe distance.

"The closer you follow, the more benefit you get from the drafting effects"
The effects diminish w/distance but still exist.

Earlier, you said:
I've heard that before. C4 is 14' long. 14'x8 (80 mph), is ~115'. Following at 115, according to the site that you linked, I'm seeing results in a drag force decrease from ~118 lbs down to ~80 lbs.




Are you saying that (a 34% reduction) is not a meaningful reduction in drag?


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This.^^^^^^ Wednesday marked the 4th anniversary of a tragic event that happened in a community about 60 miles from me. Driver with 6 months experience pulling a B train jumped a stop sign and killed sixteen junior hockey players and wounded and maimed many more. Got 8 years. 6 months for each life.

 

Did you read there analysis of the data at the bottom of the graphs and charts?

 

Yep. I sure did. Did YOU read what I wrote? Did you read your own site and apply any actual thought to the data they provided?

Their analysis said:
"...we were able to confirm our initial assumptions. Both drag and lift can be reduced by decreasing the following distance behind a truck. However, to get any noticeable reduction in energy expenditure, you would have to follow at an unsafe distance for a human driver’s reaction time. To gain any benefits in fuel economy, you would be putting yourself in danger of a collision if the truck came to a sudden stop"

What *I* said was:
Are you saying that (a 34% reduction) is not a meaningful reduction in drag?
...you didn't answer that.

As for that site's claim about safe following distances, I'm going to call BS on that. First, it's totally subjective w/no reference (distance) that I saw. They just say, "it's unsafe". BASED ON WHAT?! Nothing, that they provided. A Corvette will handily out stop a semi truck. YOU cited a car length/10mph....which even though I feel is still overly conservative, I used that metric (did you read that?), which gives you ~115' at 80 mph....which.....your graph shows.....a 34% reduction in drag force.

So? What do YOU say? Is a 34% reduction in drag force, MEANINGFUL?