Reconsidering an LS swap.
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Joined: Mar 2021
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You guys are lucky, very few LS engines here under $1200-1500 (Canadian), if you can even find one at all I picked up my gen 4 aluminum 5.3L for $600 and had it resold in 2 days for $1200. But that was a steal of a deal back in 2019. Paid $2K for my LS2 (decent price for the local market) which was a gamble I lost on since it had a wiped bearing from a dry start despite being super clean inside and rotating very easily. But even with forged internals, high-end valvtrain, fast Intake and getring the 243 heads ported it was slightly less than and LS3 crate, so I guess it still worked out. The benefit of doing built engine although it is higher cost is I can wind it out the 7500rpm all day long without a worry. Proabbly done that 200times already, lol.
edit: the other benefit was going with the LT1-S monster clutch and T56 magnum is I can also shift at 7500rpm too!
edit: the other benefit was going with the LT1-S monster clutch and T56 magnum is I can also shift at 7500rpm too!
I haven't run mine up date high (battling a high load fuel pressure loss, I need to dig into it), but I also love the high rpms . This goes back to thinking about the combo. *IF* he goes with a 6 speed that can actually be happy shifting at those (I know this was an issue on TKOs, unless they were faceplated), and is the turbo+engine combo giving the power curve to match.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,778
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From: Langley BC
Yep, if you plan to rev the engine, you for sure want to have a clutch and Trans that will allow you to shift at high rpm. The Magnum for sure will I think it can handle up to 8k shifts, I think the new TKX likely can. With a proper clutch/flywheel. I don't know about the ZF and flywheel/clutch combo's avaliable for it.
I'd say the old T56, and TKO 5/600 are out for high rpm stuff unless they are molded to take high rpm.
I'd say the old T56, and TKO 5/600 are out for high rpm stuff unless they are molded to take high rpm.
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Joined: Mar 2021
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One other issue you run into on LQ4s is they tend to be from a lot of work trucks/vans, and can be pretty beat.
For me, there is certainly the convenience factor of getting one already pulled and on a pallet, rather than a day at the yard. I enjoy doing that, but job + family means I need to ration the time wisely. I actually lucked out on mine, I got it from a breaker yard that mainly does exotics (in a very sketchy part of Detroit that I never hope to visit again), but they also worked with Hummers. So mine was from a Hummer H2... Once I got it home, I noticed the head bolts were ARP... ended up having ARP bolts inside and out, upgraded timing set and oil pump, CNC ported heads with springs/retainers and upgraded trunnions, and a Lunati blower cam. Previous owner was running a blower on it, crank was keyed also. Was worried it might have abuse damage, but I checked it out and it was perfect and actually built with great parts. Been running hard in our 1971 Jimmy since 2018.
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Joined: Dec 2018
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From: Wisconsin
2023 Corvette of the Year Finalist - Modified
2022 C4 of the Year Winner - Modified
Finalist 2020 C4 of the Year - Modified
I usually go to their sister yard in Pontiac, which is pretty picked over. In general, there aren't too many true u-pull yards here in Metro Detroit, and you get regulars who get to the good parts pretty quickly. The yards post the new row setups on facebook, but often the good bits are gone to insiders first.
One other issue you run into on LQ4s is they tend to be from a lot of work trucks/vans, and can be pretty beat.
For me, there is certainly the convenience factor of getting one already pulled and on a pallet, rather than a day at the yard. I enjoy doing that, but job + family means I need to ration the time wisely. I actually lucked out on mine, I got it from a breaker yard that mainly does exotics (in a very sketchy part of Detroit that I never hope to visit again), but they also worked with Hummers. So mine was from a Hummer H2... Once I got it home, I noticed the head bolts were ARP... ended up having ARP bolts inside and out, upgraded timing set and oil pump, CNC ported heads with springs/retainers and upgraded trunnions, and a Lunati blower cam. Previous owner was running a blower on it, crank was keyed also. Was worried it might have abuse damage, but I checked it out and it was perfect and actually built with great parts. Been running hard in our 1971 Jimmy since 2018.
One other issue you run into on LQ4s is they tend to be from a lot of work trucks/vans, and can be pretty beat.
For me, there is certainly the convenience factor of getting one already pulled and on a pallet, rather than a day at the yard. I enjoy doing that, but job + family means I need to ration the time wisely. I actually lucked out on mine, I got it from a breaker yard that mainly does exotics (in a very sketchy part of Detroit that I never hope to visit again), but they also worked with Hummers. So mine was from a Hummer H2... Once I got it home, I noticed the head bolts were ARP... ended up having ARP bolts inside and out, upgraded timing set and oil pump, CNC ported heads with springs/retainers and upgraded trunnions, and a Lunati blower cam. Previous owner was running a blower on it, crank was keyed also. Was worried it might have abuse damage, but I checked it out and it was perfect and actually built with great parts. Been running hard in our 1971 Jimmy since 2018.
Dumb question: if I were to go search for one of the aluminum 6.0s, what were they in?
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2021
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L76: I think found in Pontiac G*s and in Vortec Max 1/2 ton trucks. (Rectangle port heads)
Not many around, they were the bridge between 5.7s and the 6.2s. I would generally skip right to a 6.2 if I wanted a large bore aluminum NA motor.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2018
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From: DFW TX
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,778
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From: Langley BC
As notes by others TBSS, GTO and 2005-2007 corvette.
My aluminum 6.0L (LS2) was out of a side swiped 06' vette.
I tend to agree with going to a 6.2L if you can, but around here a used aluminum 6.2L will sell for 3x what I paid for my LS2. My area seems to be highly competitive for used LS engines if you can even find one, so perhaps it's different elsewhere.
TBH, if you have decided from the outset your going to build a engine anyway, don't even bother messing around in junkyards just buy all new parts or get TSP or some other place to send you a new motor built to your specs. The only exception is if you can find a wrecked C6 corvette engine for a really good deal because then you could use the accessories, TB, gas pedal etc...off it.
My aluminum 6.0L (LS2) was out of a side swiped 06' vette.
I tend to agree with going to a 6.2L if you can, but around here a used aluminum 6.2L will sell for 3x what I paid for my LS2. My area seems to be highly competitive for used LS engines if you can even find one, so perhaps it's different elsewhere.
TBH, if you have decided from the outset your going to build a engine anyway, don't even bother messing around in junkyards just buy all new parts or get TSP or some other place to send you a new motor built to your specs. The only exception is if you can find a wrecked C6 corvette engine for a really good deal because then you could use the accessories, TB, gas pedal etc...off it.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,876
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From: Sligo PA
If you want to go aluminum and you're trying to find a starting point in a junkyard check out early 2000's Trailblazers that are the EXT model. If you look at the VIN on a salvage yard website or Facebook if you see the 8th digit is an "S" then it's the 6 cylinder. I can't remember the number for the LM4 V8 but they only offered two engines for those so that will find it for you.
These motors can be built to produce a lot of power and help keep weight down. Yes it's a 5.3L, but if you NEED aluminum then it's a very cost effective option. The only issue is pulling them. The AWD in these SUV's makes pulling the motor a PITA. But they almost always have low mileage and run great right out of the yard.
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Joined: Dec 2018
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From: Wisconsin
2023 Corvette of the Year Finalist - Modified
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Finalist 2020 C4 of the Year - Modified
Am I correct in assuming that I should be able to keep my 4+3 transmission (shift RPM limitations aside) for now?
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Heres one for ya....World Hybrid SBC block...All Gen 1 from the deck to the oil pan but accepts LSx cylinder heads.
Or start with a 6.0 stroke to 408, A good cyl head and say at most a 230ish @050 hr cam.. You can make real good power and big torque from this without having to boost...can always add if you get the itch. Seem to do best without a ton of cam. Easy to crest 5 at the tire with this
Heres a nice but more radical SR ls 383....spent some time in this car..super tractable but pulled like freaking crazy. Real hard.
Or start with a 6.0 stroke to 408, A good cyl head and say at most a 230ish @050 hr cam.. You can make real good power and big torque from this without having to boost...can always add if you get the itch. Seem to do best without a ton of cam. Easy to crest 5 at the tire with this
Heres a nice but more radical SR ls 383....spent some time in this car..super tractable but pulled like freaking crazy. Real hard.
Last edited by cv67; May 22, 2022 at 03:47 AM.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 504
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From: Melbourne Victoria
Heres one for ya....World Hybrid SBC block...All Gen 1 from the deck to the oil pan but accepts LSx cylinder heads.
Or start with a 6.0 stroke to 408, A good cyl head and say at most a 230ish @050 hr cam.. You can make real good power and big torque from this without having to boost...can always add if you get the itch. Seem to do best without a ton of cam. Easy to crest 5 at the tire with this
Heres a nice but more radical SR ls 383....spent some time in this car..super tractable but pulled like freaking crazy. Real hard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz70IVvUu30
Or start with a 6.0 stroke to 408, A good cyl head and say at most a 230ish @050 hr cam.. You can make real good power and big torque from this without having to boost...can always add if you get the itch. Seem to do best without a ton of cam. Easy to crest 5 at the tire with this
Heres a nice but more radical SR ls 383....spent some time in this car..super tractable but pulled like freaking crazy. Real hard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz70IVvUu30
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,116
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From: San Francisco California
If you are trying to make less than 1000rwhp you don't need any fancy block.... or even a forged crank if going turbo. Pretty much any forged rod/piston on a stock crank will handle your needs (non stroker). The power potential will be simply be how much boost you want to turn it up to. Ported heads will make it easier... but even those aren't needed as LS heads flow very well.
You mentioned your goal is to make 500-550rwhp.... if that is the case just get a NEW LS3 longblock from GM for $4990, do cam/headers and factory LS3 intake manifold and it will make very close to 500rwhp on 91 octane. We did a 416ci setup (LS3 block/4" crank) with stock LS3 heads/intake and healthy BTR cam, mid length crappy 1 3/4" truck headers (C10 swap), into crush bent dual 2.5" exhaust and it made 560rwhp on 91 octane (T56 Magnum, aluminum flywheel, RST McLeod) into a 12 bolt rear on 335/30/18 tires. He then wanted more power so he had the heads ported, the intake rod modded and ported, and a new custom cam with dual 3" mandrel bent exhaust and it made right around 600rwhp on 91 octane. Has been running AutoX and road race stuff beating the **** out of it for a couple years now.
You mentioned your goal is to make 500-550rwhp.... if that is the case just get a NEW LS3 longblock from GM for $4990, do cam/headers and factory LS3 intake manifold and it will make very close to 500rwhp on 91 octane. We did a 416ci setup (LS3 block/4" crank) with stock LS3 heads/intake and healthy BTR cam, mid length crappy 1 3/4" truck headers (C10 swap), into crush bent dual 2.5" exhaust and it made 560rwhp on 91 octane (T56 Magnum, aluminum flywheel, RST McLeod) into a 12 bolt rear on 335/30/18 tires. He then wanted more power so he had the heads ported, the intake rod modded and ported, and a new custom cam with dual 3" mandrel bent exhaust and it made right around 600rwhp on 91 octane. Has been running AutoX and road race stuff beating the **** out of it for a couple years now.
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Joined: Dec 2018
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From: Wisconsin
2023 Corvette of the Year Finalist - Modified
2022 C4 of the Year Winner - Modified
Finalist 2020 C4 of the Year - Modified
Good news, I found an LS. (Bad news if you think I shouldn't LS swap, perhaps?) I found a 6.0 LQ4 out of a 2001 Yukon XL for $850 local to me. The yard is pulling it (most of the yards around here pull the parts, there are only two that are the pick and pull type) and I should have it late next week. I'll get it on the stand and prepped. It'll still be at the very earliest next winter, likely the winter after that before I start anything big as the L98 is still healthy and I will still need to get the rest of the parts required (plus figure out a flywheel solution) but it's a start!
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Good score! A super high mile junkyard 5.3 engine is 1300 and up everywhere you look in Ca. RIpoff..
Thats a great starting point for any ls build, displacement is where its at! Wont take much to turn your car in to a rocket
Yes those world blocks arent cheap niether is the front distrubutor system, intake. Sure is different.
Fwiw that C5 made 540/550 to the tire...exact # youd have to ask Mamo himself.
Thats a great starting point for any ls build, displacement is where its at! Wont take much to turn your car in to a rocket
Yes those world blocks arent cheap niether is the front distrubutor system, intake. Sure is different.
Fwiw that C5 made 540/550 to the tire...exact # youd have to ask Mamo himself.
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 733
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From: Wisconsin
2023 Corvette of the Year Finalist - Modified
2022 C4 of the Year Winner - Modified
Finalist 2020 C4 of the Year - Modified
Look what followed me home! I found a good candidate for the swap. I'll start disassembly to evaluate what I've got soon. I'm in no rush as my L98 is still in good health. I'll keep figuring the other details like cam, intake, and accessory drive in the mean time. Unless I hurt the L98, I'll keep to my plan of doing the swap in this winter or the next.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,876
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From: Sligo PA
One nice thing about the motor you got is that you can sell some parts that you can't use and make some of your money back. Unfortunately that's not the NNBS TBSS intake manifold but it's still worth $200 on ebay with the throttle body and rails. Also if you're planning on more compression than the 317 heads have to offer you can sell those for $300 and then pick up a nice set of 706 heads for around $100 (no one wants them)..This will give you over 10:1 compression with very good air velocity for low end power. (check out Richard Holdener's videos on this topic) Or you could find a set of 243/799 heads that flow better but won't give you as much of a compression boost.
If I had to do my LS swap over again I would have bought two motors. I would have got the same LQ9 6.0L that I got but I would have also picked up a 4.8L with transmission out of a 2007+ 3/4 ton van at the same time. That way I would have 799 heads, a 4L80e transmission and a TBSS intake to sell for $400. That would also give you 36 lb flex injectors. This way I could have sold the 317 heads and both intakes and made money on doing the swap.
If I had to do my LS swap over again I would have bought two motors. I would have got the same LQ9 6.0L that I got but I would have also picked up a 4.8L with transmission out of a 2007+ 3/4 ton van at the same time. That way I would have 799 heads, a 4L80e transmission and a TBSS intake to sell for $400. That would also give you 36 lb flex injectors. This way I could have sold the 317 heads and both intakes and made money on doing the swap.
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Joined: Dec 2018
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From: Wisconsin
2023 Corvette of the Year Finalist - Modified
2022 C4 of the Year Winner - Modified
Finalist 2020 C4 of the Year - Modified
I'm still doing research for the swap and (slowly) collecting parts . I've found solutions for making any one of the transmission options I have picked bolt up. Now I'm trying to figure out which intake to use. While some of the low profile sheet metal and cast ones would fit (and look cool) I'm thinking the best option is a used LS1 intake. The operating RPM range is where I want it, they're relatively cheap, and I can get a cable throttle body for it. (I'm not interested in doing drive by wire.)
Any reason to go with something different?
Any reason to go with something different?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 764
From: Sligo PA
I'm still doing research for the swap and (slowly) collecting parts . I've found solutions for making any one of the transmission options I have picked bolt up. Now I'm trying to figure out which intake to use. While some of the low profile sheet metal and cast ones would fit (and look cool) I'm thinking the best option is a used LS1 intake. The operating RPM range is where I want it, they're relatively cheap, and I can get a cable throttle body for it. (I'm not interested in doing drive by wire.)
Any reason to go with something different?
Any reason to go with something different?
Also, if you are going with a 4L60e trans I have a C beam adapter that I made that is collecting dust in my garage. I swapped mine from a 4L60e to a 4L80e and I made a new adapter for it. If you're interested let me know. It would need a little modification if you're using a Dana 36 but would save you a lot of time. But to be honest if you can weld making an adapter isn't that hard.