Hey folks, I recently had my clutch cylinder seals go on me so I had to replace them. Because of certain circumstances, this ended up happening while the car was parked for about two weeks. I finished the job, but now when I go to start the car, nothing seems to be working. I push the clutch and brake in, turn the key, and the lights come on as if it is trying to start, but no noise. I don't hear the starter or anything. I've noticed now that I have a security light that is flashing sometimes on my cluster, and I'm not sure why. I've owned the car for about 15 months now and never once seen this light come on. To my knowledge the VATS has been bypassed. Hell, I've even had to put in an aftermarket ignition cylinder and the key I use doesn't even have a chip on it. If it is the VATS causing this issue, I don't know why. I know there is also some kind of anti theft alarm that is supposed to come on when you park the car and lock it with the door lock switch, but my driver's side door is missing the powered switch so I always just use the manual locking lever in the door instead. I've been trying to do some reading on this issue but pretty much everyone says "clean the chip in the key, replace the ignition cylinder" etc etc... If that is the issue, I don't know why it would only be starting now.

I've seen suggestions that it could be a battery issue, but my battery is at 12.6v right now, which I've been told is a normal reading. Still think I might try swapping it if it comes to that. I plan to check for engine codes in the morning. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Not sure it matters but to be specific it's an 86 coupe with the 4+3.

EDIT: I believe the fuel pump is turning on when I turn the key, I hear something back there. I'm starting to think it may be a starter relay issue but that doesn't explain why the security light is flashing as soon as I open the door.

 

Since you replaced the clutch cylinders, I'm thinking its your neutral safety switch.

 

Is the key your using just 'brass' with maybe a number (code) on it? If VATS was NOT defeated and you bought a cylinder if it is correct for an '86 would have had the wires. Did it have wires like a correct cylinder would have had? Did you route the wires and connect to the connector near the base of the column? If you don't know for a fact VATS is defeated you can't just assume it was. You could jumper the clutch operated safety switch to see if you get CRANK but be sure to have in neutral and clutch depressed. You were at the clutch pedal so it's possible you did maybe disconnect (unintentionally) the lever/rod.

Do you have the FSM (Factory/Field Service Manual)?

 

I've tried jumping the switch by the clutch pedal, no difference. The previous owner told me VATS was disabled and I've been using an aftermarket ignition cylinder for VATS that I cut the wires off of for many months now without issue. The key I use is the test key that came with the cylinder, I haven't bothered cutting a new one with a chip. I can't really anyway because the reason I replaced the ignition cylinder is because the old one locked up and I can't get the key out of it, so I can't even check the resistance on the key.

 

If VATS is by-passed you actually don't need a chipped key but the shaft length needs to match that of the brass key that you're currently using. If you wanted you could buy any chipped key and knock resistor out of it and have it cut to the code on your brass key.
If the previous owner by-passed VATS maybe while you were under there you disturbed the resistor that was used for the bypass, If it was a poor solder job - who knows. Can you find the wires from the VATS module towards the cylinder? I believe BROWN and YELLOW on your year.

Do you have the FSM?.

 

Quick question for you since you seem to have great knowledge. If the OP is getting fuel pump prime can that still be VATS? My FSM says that the VATS shuts down Starter relay and fuel but does not say fuel pump relay.
I know I had my key fail and had to get a new ignition and keys (way back), I just don't remember if turning the key (on a fail attempt) activated the fuel pump relay.

 

Starting another go at it here for the day.

Opened the door and the security light flashed. Closed door and the security light stopped. Key in the cylinder, turned to on position. Hear a slight click behind the passenger side. Turn to start, heard the whirring of the fuel pump, starter did not engage, no cranking or anything. Lights are all coming on. Tapped the starter, nothing. Gonna try swapping the battery.

Yes, I do have the FSM.

 

I would see if you can CRANK just jumping at the starter solenoid to large cable from battery. Might be easier than doing the battery swap.

 

I already swapped the battery and no luck. Same issue. I'll try next to jump the starter and see what happens, but I don't know when I'll be able to do that. Days are short right now and I unfortunately have limited time.

I'm just going to quickly try and write in detail everything I've done so far just so it can all be written down for troubleshooting.

Month ago the clutch seals went, started losing fluid running down the firewall behind the pedal. I haven't been able to drive it for about 2 weeks. In that time it has been parked outside. I purchased new master and slave cylinders, and started replacing those last week. Got both on last Sunday, but it got cold so I closed the hood and took a lunch break to warm up. Came back out and the hood was stuck so I couldn't bleed the clutch. Ordered a release tool and got it open the other day, bled the system yesterday, which was a huge pain. After that, wouldn't start. As I said before I noticed the security light is working now which has never happened in my 15 months of ownership, I found that odd. I'm noticing now it only seems to flash when the door is ajar and doesn't come on otherwise, so now I'm not sure if it is related to anything. At first I thought maybe it was the neutral switch stopping me from starting the car, as my previous master cylinder had a spacer on it which I removed when I put the new one on so it could function properly. However, the pedal is still clearly moving far enough to disengage this switch. To be sure I took a piece of wire that I usually use for shorting my OBD, and I tried shorting the connections while starting the car, no luck. I noticed somebody mentioned a different switch in a different post that is used for cruise control. I only saw one switch down by the pedal so I'm hoping that was the correct one. Thought maybe the starter was stuck so I tapped it a bunch with a stick but never heard any click. Noticed my battery is nearly 3 years old and it had been sitting unused for a while aside from when the hood lights were on, and the voltage seemed a bit low, so I thought maybe it was dead. Swapped that out, still not working. Tried checking for engine codes, watched them for a minute or two, just a bunch of 12s (no error).

That's where I'm at right now. Like I said before when I turn the key to ON I hear a slight click behind me, and then I turn it to IGNITION, I hear what I believe to be the fuel pump, some kind of slight whirring. I will be totally honest and say that I do not know for certain that's what the noise is, it's not something I've really paid attention to before.

 

Clutch safety switch is #9 in this image. It will have 2 black wires to a connector that has PPL & GRN/WHT (8A-30-0 FSM). You need to 'jumper' PPL & GRN/WHT to by-pass. It sounds like maybe you didn't jumper the correct switch. Don't know but a jumper at the starter solenoid to battery stud should give you 'CRANK'. If it doesn't bad cables?

https://www.wholesalegmpartsonline.c...rimLevel=25296

You removed spacer at the clutch master?

 

Looking at that diagram, #9 looks different compared to what I was jumping. I'll take another look when I get home tonight and see if I can find it.

And yea, I removed that spacer, but I see in the diagram that it is present... I was lead to believe based on videos and other posts I had seen that the spacer was an aftermarket addition some people would add to alleviate problems, and it seemed when I first installed the master that the pedal wasn't able to move the rod in the cylinder correctly when it was there. It seemed better when I removed it, but maybe it was just a bleeding issue. I've had incredible difficulty bleeding the clutch on this thing properly. I'll check for that switch again and put that spacer on the list as well, I should still have it. Shouldn't be too bad to put back on...

 

OK I just got the opportunity to try jumping that switch. It was really hidden up there! If you didn't show me that diagram I never would have found it. I couldn't figure out how the connector comes off so I went ahead and jumped it from the back of the wire like so.


Jumped clutch switch
Put the car in neutral and tried giving it a shot, still no start. However I do hear a clunking/clicking now when I try to start it, so I think you've put me on the right track. My dash is now measuring the battery at 11.5v, so maybe it just needs a jump now? I'd measure it with the multimeter if it weren't raining so heavily right now. Wondering if I just drained it from trying to start it.

Not sure how I'd go about adjusting this switch... I'm wondering if it would be easier to just put the spacer back on.

 

I think you should put the spacer back on. I just did my clutch cylinders in my '89 and I used the ubiquitous chinese cast iron ones. Before installing the master, I verified that its length was the same as the stock one I pulled off, as was the rod. So I took the spacer off the original and put it on the new one.

I guess the crucial measurement is how far the rod extends from the mounting flange on the cylinder. You want that to be the same on the replacement.

As for your battery, it does sound like you need a charge. My battery died on me while mine was down for alternator and clutch and the way it was acting, I wouldn't necessarily have thought it was the battery. I'm used to getting at least a solenoid clicking weakly but it doesn't seem to work like that on these Vettes. For instance, all my interior lights would come on, the headlights would deploy and ignite, but when I would turn the key, everything would go dead and I'd have to disconnect the battery to reset things. All it took to fix this was a good charge.

Give your battery a good long charge (like overnight) on the lowest setting of your charger. I've been told that even if a battery is reading proper voltage, it can still be in need of a charge.

 

Alright, yesterday I put the spacer back on and bled the system again, and it appears to be working! Drove it around a fair amount. Really appreciate all the help guys.

I did have to jump the battery to get it started (again, brand new battery) which is concerning, but I'm leaning towards a bad ground or contact rather than any kind of drain. After the initial drive (roughly 30 minutes?) it sat for an hour before I started it again, and the dash read 8v. After jumping it with my box it read 14, but the jump box still had 100% on it. Yet, 6-7 hours later I started it again without any issue.

Anyway, that's not as important, I can figure that one out and it's straying from the subject of this post. Thank you for all the help again, life savers!