Wideband monkey business! :-)
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
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From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Wideband monkey business! :-)
Looked at widebands again this week. Mostly searched Amazon after finding a nice "tool" (website) called camelcamel. It shows deals by category. (I was looking at TVs but tried automotive). That's when I spotted AEM AFR (and Lambda) gauges for half the normal $200ish. Later figured out these must be china knock-offs.
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THANKS!!!
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- So, one question is: Do those really suck? and....
- Some units seem to come with a controller (in addition to the sensor, gauge, harness, and mounting accessories). What is the control box for? Why don't some seem to have that?
- Is there anything to look for -- to be sure it's easy to datalog w/o issue?
- Who considers the logging feature inside TunerPro different/same as external dataloggers.. Will either capture mechanism be efficient to determine precise areas in need of "touch-up"?
THANKS!!!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,221
Likes: 302
I've been running my AEM WB for a while now and no problems. Not sure what you'd "control" on a WB... generally its just the gauge.
As far as datalogging using TP, it depends on what ECM you're using and whether there's a ADX/ADS/ECU definition file that will allow TP to read it.
I wired the aux 5V output from the WB gauge into an unused 5V sensor circuit input on my ECM (a 90-92 7730 Camaro ECM). There was a adx file existing that allowed TP to read that input. I then had to plug in the voltage vs AFR curve from the sensor into the TP parameter for the WB.
I don't know that you can simply wire the WB directly to the laptop and have TP read it.
The advantage of using TP to read the WB is that you can go back and correlate it to RPM, MAP, MAT, etc, later and do all sorts of analysis to get it dialed in. You don't have to look at the readout while driving.
If the WB datalogger simply records the WB and nothing else, I'm not sure that helps that much.
As far as datalogging using TP, it depends on what ECM you're using and whether there's a ADX/ADS/ECU definition file that will allow TP to read it.
I wired the aux 5V output from the WB gauge into an unused 5V sensor circuit input on my ECM (a 90-92 7730 Camaro ECM). There was a adx file existing that allowed TP to read that input. I then had to plug in the voltage vs AFR curve from the sensor into the TP parameter for the WB.
I don't know that you can simply wire the WB directly to the laptop and have TP read it.
The advantage of using TP to read the WB is that you can go back and correlate it to RPM, MAP, MAT, etc, later and do all sorts of analysis to get it dialed in. You don't have to look at the readout while driving.
If the WB datalogger simply records the WB and nothing else, I'm not sure that helps that much.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,362
Likes: 400
From: DFW TX
I use an AEM 30- something wideband. I think it was less than 200 new from Amazon. It is wired into my 411 ecm through a 5v input and have custom input scaling/parameters in HPtuners to log. The gauge/controller works well.
Most of the older style widebands had separate controllers, that fed the gauge and/or pcm/logger. Now, most of them have the controller built into the gauge itself. The sensor does have to be heated/pre-heated to operate. That is what the "controller" does.
Most of the older style widebands had separate controllers, that fed the gauge and/or pcm/logger. Now, most of them have the controller built into the gauge itself. The sensor does have to be heated/pre-heated to operate. That is what the "controller" does.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
Likes: 446
From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
So, I assume everyone paid $200ish for the non-Chinese version of the AEM Wideband units?
Can they be pinned to input IN PLACE OF or IN ADDITION TO the on-board narrow-band sensor already in the L98 setup? (For Datalogging) Otherwise, I'd guess TunerPro can't be your datalogger? (I don't know what the "press sender" is).
I have an 89 with the stock 1227165 ECM. (If that helps for a recommendation how to connect/datalog the thing.
Can they be pinned to input IN PLACE OF or IN ADDITION TO the on-board narrow-band sensor already in the L98 setup? (For Datalogging) Otherwise, I'd guess TunerPro can't be your datalogger? (I don't know what the "press sender" is).
I have an 89 with the stock 1227165 ECM. (If that helps for a recommendation how to connect/datalog the thing.
Heel & Toe
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 16
Likes: 5
From: Torrance, CA
I'm using a Banks Power I-dash Superguage with the Zeitronix ZT-4 Dual AFR wideband setup to read AFR for left and right cylinder banks. I originally had three gauges (fuel pressure, boost, dual reading AFR) but I was able to set them all up on just the one I-dash guage.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 397
From: Lakeville MI
Here's a recent log from one of my customer's cars with reasonable fuel control: https://datazap.me/u/tequilaboy/feli...3439-4210-4264
Its a supercharged third-gen (iroc) with 5 speed and 355 located somewhere in the UKI assume that the local fuel is ethanol free Correction: 98 RON Shell V-power (with 5% ethanol). Innovate sensor (with NB sensor based control).
Interestingly, the running average afr error% (relative to target AFR) is: - 1% (rich) despite some DFCO events which contribute significant positive error.
Keep in mind that the WBO2 and NB signals lag behind what is happening in the cylinder by about 300 ms. If one was so inclined, they could time shift the exported data by the expected response time/transport delay,but I've never bothered to do this.
WBO2, afr error and afr error% signals time shifted by 3 rows (zoomed in example): https://datazap.me/u/tequilaboy/time...4912-4777-5016
Note: a 2 row shift might be more realistic here: https://datazap.me/u/tequilaboy/try-...4912-4777-4850
You can see that the WBO2 is pretty much in phase with the injector in this example.
Its a supercharged third-gen (iroc) with 5 speed and 355 located somewhere in the UK
Interestingly, the running average afr error% (relative to target AFR) is: - 1% (rich) despite some DFCO events which contribute significant positive error.
Keep in mind that the WBO2 and NB signals lag behind what is happening in the cylinder by about 300 ms. If one was so inclined, they could time shift the exported data by the expected response time/transport delay,
WBO2, afr error and afr error% signals time shifted by 3 rows (zoomed in example): https://datazap.me/u/tequilaboy/time...4912-4777-5016
Note: a 2 row shift might be more realistic here: https://datazap.me/u/tequilaboy/try-...4912-4777-4850
You can see that the WBO2 is pretty much in phase with the injector in this example.
Last edited by tequilaboy; Aug 10, 2024 at 08:15 PM.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
Likes: 446
From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
I appreciate the reply but might be living in 2000's technology? (I tuned my car in 2009-2010 -- last time). Tequilaboy, you've posted one of those "datazap's" for me in the past. I can kinda-sorta see the trend between the graph lines and what they are trying to represent. The biggest problem is the lack of scale -- at least to my eyes. Also that INT/BLM appear to be combined (something I didn't know could/should be done). Having said all that, I understand the point about fueling data lagging behind and would guess that's particularly true on our "primitive" ECMs.
The problem I hEave is I don't know how to read that graph, don't know if it's really supposed to address the questions I initiated this thread with, or know if you're really "posing" something for other readers?
Example: I don't see any scale close to 14.7 for the AFR...or percentage (0-100) for the error.
The problem I hEave is I don't know how to read that graph, don't know if it's really supposed to address the questions I initiated this thread with, or know if you're really "posing" something for other readers?
Example: I don't see any scale close to 14.7 for the AFR...or percentage (0-100) for the error.
Last edited by GREGGPENN; Aug 11, 2024 at 02:53 PM.
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Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
Likes: 446
From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
I'm using a Banks Power I-dash Superguage with the Zeitronix ZT-4 Dual AFR wideband setup to read AFR for left and right cylinder banks. I originally had three gauges (fuel pressure, boost, dual reading AFR) but I was able to set them all up on just the one I-dash guage.