Hello again gentlemen,

I have an issue that has persisted on my car for quite some time now, and I finally want to get around to addressing it before I am left stranded in a parking lot at midnight.

My starter has been acting up. When the car is starting from cold, it takes about 2-3 seconds from turning the key over to finally hearing a crank going on in the engine. When shutting the car down and turning it back on, the car fires quicker (I attribute this to heat allowing gasoline from the TBs to evaporate easier, allowing for more complete combustion to start the car back up. When I flew Cessnas during flight training, you did not need to prime the engine if it was hot since the fuel would evaporate much easier in a hotter motor. I assume the same principle applies here.).

The real issue is starting the car between 30 minutes to an hour after a shutdown. The key turns over, I hear a click, and after a few seconds of holding the key I hear two SLOW cranks before the car crawls to life. I am not talking about a "vroom" on startup. It is a really low idle that you don't notice until checking the tach. Sometimes this is accompanied by some sort of grinding or metallic sound. Even smoke (smells like rich smoke, not oil smoke) on some occasions. Not pleasant at all.

I know I have fuel pressure when the key is inserted and turned over. When I was checking my fuel pressure back in the day, it spikes when the key is in the ignition to allow for the car to start up, so that is not the issue. My theory is that my starter is soaking up a lot of heat from the exhaust pipes, and is left to just stew there after a few hours. Perhaps the solenoid does not like that? My immediate thought is to wrap the started with some sort of heat shield blanket they sell at Autozone. If anyone has any better ideas, I am open to hearing them.

(Oh yeah, also when I got my car smogged, after a few shutdowns and startups on the dyno, the car would just not start at all. Just a click and no action. You know, I have heard of oil cooler radiators before... perhaps there is a market for starter cooler radiators...)

 

I would check all battery connections for cleanliness and tightness. Also, the battery itself....age and health. As well as confirming that the alternator is charging properly. Double check timing and make sure you don't have too much. Longshot, but if you have oil leaks, make sure that the starter and engine block mating surface/bolts are not saturated will oil....Basically making sure bolts are tight and the ground path for the starter is sanitary! If all of the above checks out, and assuming you've confirmed proper voltage at the starter...it's probably time for a new starter and/or heat blanket/shielding! Good luck👍

 

I will have to investigate the chance that the starter ground wire is gummed up with oil. I have an oil burn at the back of the engine so I am suspecting that either the China seal is giving way or that the oil pressure sending unit is leaking. If the ground cable is back there, and I believe it is, this could be my problem.

I will investigate when I'm back home this weekend. If anyone has any other thoughts, I will take them.

 

If you have the old style 200 pound starter change it to a newer style. Half the weight, twice the cranking, and half the power to spin it. Way less suseptible to heat soak as well.

 

(I tried attaching a video for the first time. Let me know if you guys can’t view it then I can just link it on YouTube or something)

So today I stalled the car in a parking lot, and it couldn’t start for a solid ten minutes. I’ve decided to try and attack the starter issue again since it’s actually nearly stranded me now.

In the video, briefly before the car kicks over, the starter makes this loud noise. Almost like it’s straining to turn over or something. When I was in the parking lot trying to start the car, it made the same noise, except it would not turn the car over no matter what. It could legitimately crank like that for five seconds straight, with injector pulse, but would not spin the engine over.





I checked my starter solenoid wires and they don’t look bad. Certainly old but not coated in oil or anything.

I’m thinking of just heat-shielding the starter to see if that works. Heat soak is my primary thought here. Secondary thought is that somehow the starter isn’t properly connected to the engine. Let me know what you guys think.

 

Gave up waiting on the video to download after 5 minutes. I swear every kid in the world is online playing new video games or something. Net has been slow since about 8am.

Usually if a starter works then doesn't, then it does, it's time to get ready to replace it. Make sure your contacts are clean. As in disconnect them, wire brush the contact points on the starter and the terminals till it's all shiny metal, then reconnect.

 

There was a new video game that came out recently that’s all the rage. Combined with the winter break, and I’m positive that the internet will be especially slow in the coming days.

Also I’m going to drop the starter out of the car to analyze it further. I’ve read that it’s not too hard. I had the car fully charged earlier, went to start it, and the starter hadn't even clicked. It just dimmed the lights. And this was an hour or two after I had just driven it. After a few tries of clicking forward, it spun for a few seconds without even turning the car over.

The starter is one of the few items that the previous owner had replaced. What are the chances that it was a dud? Perhaps higher than I expect…

 

It could be just the glare from the picture but with everything tight, I would venture a guess that terminal ring and the 2 nuts surfaces would appear parallel to each other. If you can grab that wire, I would see if it can be rotated on that stud or if it’s loose.

 

I listened to the video. That starter needs to be "shimmed".

 

I'll take a look at this. The car is still up on ramps so it should be easy to (disconnect the battery and) wiggle wires around to see if they are loose.


In my defense, the tin foil around the wires was NOT my idea. I may be cheaper than cheap but I ain't dumber than dumb. One of the rocket scientists who had my car in the past somehow decided that tin foil was good to wrap wires in. Surprised I haven't burst into flames yet in all honestly.

I'll look into getting new fusible links and wiring those up, alongside the shims as well. I knew the wires looked beat up and old under there but never enough to cause a major issue. Obviously it might be a contributing factor to my starter issues.. so perhaps not the best preventative maintenance in mind on my part.

Shims seems to be the major player here due to the grinding noise. I'll research those and install them and report back. Better to get this resolved soon rather than let the flywheel teeth be grinded down to nothing, or worse. Thank you for the image. It will help in resolving this...moderately concerning issue.

 

For reference, factory starter wiring👍

 

I feel like I just gave birth…

(And whoever rounded off the cooler line bolts on my 4+3, we are fighting if I see you in the streets)




So this is my starter. Handsome, right? Actually doesn’t look too bad at all, given the terrible noises it was making.



Thankfully, the flywheel doesn’t look like it took that much of a beating either. This was the part I was the most scared about I think.





And these are my shims. They come in a variety of sizes as seen above. The bottom (weirdly shaped one) dropped down alongside my starter. Looks like a 1/16” thickness.

So what shims do you think I should use? Should I slap another 1/16” and the two 1/32”s? Or another combination of the above? This is my first time doing this sort of work and I want to get it done right the first time because boy howdy I don’t like being under that car trying to maneuver heavy objects. Thankfully I had a block of wood to rest the starter on.

Let me know what you guys think.

 

The OP has it fixed.

 

I wish I could upload a video, but for some reason my phone is giving me trouble with the file formats.

Essentially, I shimmed the starter from the short (outer) bolt only with the 1/16" shim. I inserted the circular end and left the crescent end just hanging out to the side of the starter.

I put everything back together as if I was going for a drive, sat in the car, turned key, and it kicked over nearly instantly. It was a *click* VROOM without any sign of struggle or grind or anything. Only time will tell if this is my long-term solution or if I may need to shim it more. I didn't torque the starter bolts to any specification, so I will be sure to do that in the morning when I get my torque wrench out and have a chance to check the FSM.

Before I put this thing out on the road again, I want to resolve my crummy wire issue. Would this be a good kit to use to get those three thick wires sorted? Essentially my plan is to cut them back until I have clean, uncorroded wire, crimp them into that one single large wire that comes in the kit, then crimp that into the little circular bit that goes to the starter. My power wire seems to be fine. My dad even has that black ribbed wire covering that I can put just for a little extra shielding.

 

Surely the fusible links to the starter aren't 16 gauge I would ASSume 8 at minimum running 2 parallel for a starter current needs.

Make sure and use marine grade heat shrink over all your crimps. It has adhesive inside vs the cheapo non adhesive stuff that proliferates parts stores, and does a better job at sealing out moisture and air in exterior wiring runs. Interior wiring jobs would be fine with the cheap stuff, unless your weatherstripping is leaky

 

You may be correct about the wire gauge size. I’ll do some searching online today to see if I can either buy an off-the-shelf wire set or if I could just fabricate my own. Fabricating my own shouldn’t be too difficult, assuming the correct wire gauge. I’d just heat shrink over the crimp connections for extra moisture protection.

I just don’t want to keep those crummy old wires that go to the big bolt on the starter. If they corrode or further disintegrate, there’s a good chance they may someday just fail after a trip.

 

I completely understand that. Fusible links are typically 1 gauge size smaller than the primary wire they protect. Easy to figure out on a single fusible wire run. On a parallel wire setup you'd have to do math on gauge size capacity if you don't know the OEM fusible link size

 

Amazing how much of an improvement getting the shim correct makes, huh? 30-35 ft lbs is fine for the starter.


Fuse links are 2 gauge sizes smaller than the wire they protect. The fuse links don't carry "the current for the starter". They protect the three power wires from the battery connection to the car circuits they power.+

The fuse link gauges you need are (2) #16 and (1) #12. (I looked the sizes up in the FSM.) I'd make them from bulk (or individual) fuse link wire, about 5-6" long each. Put all 3 into a single #10 X 3/8" un-insulated (or pull the yellow sleeve off an insulated ring )ring terminal and solder it for the starter stud end, and use heat-shrink butt splice terminals for the link-to-wire splices. Use the pics that @'78CorvetteS.A. put up as your example / guide.

You did well on the shim thing. I'm surprised no one else caught that from your video.

 

Thank you for the approximate torque specs and congratulations on getting the shim to work. I think its amazing how nobody brought it up before. But at the same time, even the Autozone cashier seemed confused when I asked for starter shims. Perhaps its a dying concept with new-age cars. Even my dad was surprised on how much difference 1/16" can make.

(Quick side note, before this starter issue arose, I was not sure what a fusible link was. It is now my understanding that it is a set of wire that will break when overloaded, like a fuse. I am under the assumption that the black thick cylinders on the starter cables are the little fusible links. If this assumption is correct, continue reading. If not... scold me.)

Before I hack away at the wiring harness for repairs, I drew up a quick gameplan schematic, just to make sure I fully understand what you are saying to do:

(EDIT: THE FOLLOWING DIAGRAM IS AN INCORRECT ASSUMPTION OF HOW FUSIBLE LINKS ARE INTEGRATED IN A WIRE, FUTURE TRAVELLERS REFER TO IHBDs KNOWLEDGABLE REPLIES)



It seems that NAPA has the in-line fusible link wire for the 16 gauge here. Sadly, I cannot find the 12 gauge wire with the same configuration at any store (I'd much prefer to shop in-person, maybe that's just me). There are online shops that seem to carry it, or fusible link wire itself, so I may resort to that.

A secondary gameplan would be to chop off the wire ahead of the fusible links (where it is the most damaged), match gauges, crimp and heat wrap new wires, then put that into the 10 gauge ring terminal. That way I can avoid the new fusible link dilemma altogether.

Let me know if I am interpreting something wrong or if either of these plans sound awful. You guys have a heck of a lot more electronics knowledge than me.

 

It's fixed.